:sunglasses: 50 % :pray: 6.3 % :laughing: 34.4 % :cry: 3.1 % :poo: 6.3 %
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By Abernathy
#50278
I've been off on one of my periodic thought peregrinations about the Labour Party. I can't remember whether I posted this on here already (I may well have doe), but here it is anyway.
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One of the litany of standard reasons/excuses still being trotted (sorry/not sorry) out by the remaining die-hard rump of Trots for the catastrophic failure of the Corbyn experiment is that Corbyn could not succeed because he was uniquely targeted by hostile right-wing news media – somehow exponentially worse for Corbyn than for any other Labour leader, including Kinnock, Miliband, and Foot - so that voters were blind to his qualities and even actively worried about his sheer unfitness to take on the job of Prime Minister of the UK. The reason for this unique media hostility was, we are assured, that Jeremy Corbyn as Prime Minister constituted an active threat to the sort of political establishment that has hitherto enabled them and their vested interests to thrive and prosper. Remember- only Jeremy Corbyn, of all Labour’s leaders to date, uniquely warrants this level of news media hostility. No-one else.

Stop and think about this for just a few seconds, specifically in the context of what qualities are required of any Labour leader, and it becomes clear that being someone who uniquely attracts a game-changing amount of hostile news media coverage is not, or certainly should not be, one of the prime qualifying criteria to be in possession of for a successful leader of the Labour Party. I’d go further – it's actually one of the principal reasons why someone like Jeremy Corbyn should NOT have been leader of the Labour Party (there are, of course, many others). It was, of course, one of the things that those of us who supported Owen Smith’s leadership challenge were trying to tell the people who had insisted on electing Corbyn as leader, but which was stubbornly and indignantly rejected by the (by then) cult of Corbyn /Corbynism - who insisted on electing this negative-publicity magnet as leader for a second time.

And consider the threat-to-vested-interests/establishment part of the narrative. Does it make any sense to install someone as leader who is apparently such a clear and present danger to establishment vested interests and those with a grip on power, that they will mobilise all of the considerable resources at their disposal to make certain that Labour cannot succeed in such circumstances? Well, no, it doesn’t, and what’s more, we’ve seen it demonstrated. The 2017 election manifesto was an up-front, undisguised and bald appeal to fairer distribution of wealth and a radically better structure for society (though in reality, most of the manifesto proposals were actually rather mild and in the tradition of mainstream European social democracy). The result? Well, Labour did not succeed, of course and did not "nearly win", at least partly because those vested interests mobilised their resources, just as we knew they would. So we did it again in 2019. This time with a constantly expanding manifesto that Len McCluskey described after the election as “an incontinent mess”, and still with our negative-publicity magnet of a leader (and notably this time in full control of every aspect of the party machine) in place. We all know what happened.

My point is this. If/when we stand on policies red in tooth and claw and easily recognisable as a threat to multiple vested interests (and shout about it), with a leader/candidate for PM easily portrayed as dangerous/traitorous/ threatening to establishment vested interests, we’re on the inside track to defeat every time. So we really ought to avoid this monstrous elephant trap.

Why isn’t this obvious? Labour gets elected to government principally when it is viewed by a majority of the electorate as serious, capable, conscientious, responsible, and, yes, unthreatening. Of secondary import (though not, in actuality, secondary to those who value principle highly) are Labour’s long-defined values of equality and social justice).

By contrast, in 3 years as leader, Keir Starmer has established precisely that public reputation as diligent, conscientious, serious, and highly capable – the obvious alternative Prime Minister in waiting. Labour is again regarded as the alternative government in waiting. Labour’s policy offer is obviously still in development, but it is, thus far, very obviously not up-front socialist revolutionary stuff red in tooth and claw, while retaining socialist principles of social justice and equality at its core. Starmer has developed a clever and successful strategy for delivering victory at the election, something Corbyn never had, nor was capable of conceiving. For those of us who recognise that winning power is the one and only way to deliver social justice, this is gold dust.
Last edited by Abernathy on Wed Sep 06, 2023 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
davidjay, Malcolm Armsteen, Oboogie and 1 others liked this
By Youngian
#50279
Corbyn had an easy ride up until after GE2017 because the Tories didn’t want him gone. ‘Nice man but a bit weak and probably not up to the job’ was the worst I heard. Joe Public still knew very little about his rancid foreign policy dalliances. Once the media got going, there was very little of the usual made up nonsense* that Labour leaders faced as the truth about him was so bad and he had no political street smarts to bat it away.

*A daft story about being a Czech spy for eg but there was little need to make shit up.
By davidjay
#50307
mattomac wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 10:54 pm End of the day even the “nearly win” of 2017, he would have needed a coalition.

I doubt the LDs or SNP would have lent support as it would have been unstable as anything and as you said the Tories would have ramped it up on any second election.
I wonder what would have happened had he got the support of the SNP in a coalition - would his supporters have seen it as a Ramsey MacDonaldesque betrayal, or would it have been an understandable bit of realpolitik?
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By Abernathy
#51848
Somewhat sensationalist article in The Times about Labour apparently considering barring "troublesome" sitting MPs , including, it seems, Liam Byrne and Khalid Mahmood, from standing for re-election. I'm quoting it here in full because it's otherwise stuck behind theTimes' paywall :
Labour is preparing a purge of troublesome MPs by blocking them from standing at the next election.
Up to a dozen MPs could be in the crosshairs as Sir Keir Starmer draws up plans for a standards crackdown to make the party fit for government.
A Labour spokesman said: “The public rightly expect the highest standards from their MPs. With Keir’s changed Labour Party, that’s what they’ll get.”
Labour has overhauled their selection process for new candidates with stricter due diligence checks to try to ensure the party is not humiliated in choosing unsuitable future MPs. This has been extended to whether current MPs should be allowed to stand again if they have been found to have fallen short.
Party officials are understood to believe the standards rows that engulfed Boris Johnson’s government were a key factor in loss of trust in the Tories, and are keen not to fall into the same trap.
One Labour source said the decisions would not be factional or based on politics, but instead decisions made on “behavioural, reputational issues”.
The source said “the party is preparing to clear the field” and will “take on some of the MPs it doesn’t want to stand at the next election”.
Another source said: “We just can’t afford to f*** up a potentially historic majority with internal bulls***, it’s not worth it, and we need people who are actually competent to be able to do their jobs as an MP, including questioning their own conduct.”
A full list of names has not yet been confirmed but is thought to include Liam Byrne, Khalid Mahmood and Neil Coyle. However, sources say up to a dozen are being discussed.
Exactly how the MPs will be stopped from standing is up for debate, but Starmer could use the same method through which Jeremy Corbyn, the former Labour leader, was blocked as Labour’s candidate in Islington North.
It would involve proposing a motion to Labour’s national executive committee (NEC) that they will not be endorsed to stand.
A third source added: “If there are people that are going to cause us embarrassment in the future, it doesn’t matter if they’ve been an MP for 20 years or new candidates, it applies across the board.”
On Thursday the NEC suspended the party’s entire Leicester East branch.
Branch and constituency meetings have been stopped “until further notice” and officers “relieved of their positions and duties”, an internal email said.
The NEC has launched an investigation into the constituency over its operation, and a party source said: “The NEC has a duty to safeguard the integrity of CLPs [constituency Labour parties], to ensure that they are properly run in line with the party’s rules and procedures and can operate fully, inclusively and democratically.”
The constituency has been mired in controversy in recent years. The MP Claudia Webbe was previously found guilty of harassing a love rival and lost an appeal against her conviction last year. Her sentence was reduced in the appeal, meaning she did not reach the threshold to trigger a recall petition. She was expelled from the Labour Party and now sits as an independent.
Claudia Webbe was expelled from the Labour Party
Claudia Webbe was expelled from the Labour Party
CHRIS J RATCLIFFE/GETTY IMAGES
Keith Vaz, the previous Labour MP for the seat, retired from parliament after being caught with male sex workers and offering to buy them drugs.
Sir Peter Soulsby, the city’s Labour mayor, said the constituency party had been “problematic for a number of years”.
He said: “It has been very evident that in this constituency party there were a number of concerns about the way in which it was operating and these were, of course, exacerbated during the run-up to the last city council election.
“It was clear the intervention the national party conducted more generally in Leicester was very much influenced by their concern about this particular constituency and its operation.”
Labour has sent in campaign improvement boards (Cibs) to groups on councils across the country, including Leicester.
The Times previously revealed that failing groups put under supervision had been asked to reflect on the leadership style of Field Marshal Bernard Montgomery, who in the Second World War commanded the Eighth Army in the Western Desert campaign and the invasions of Sicily and Italy and the Allied ground forces on D-Day.
Cibs had been dispatched in Leicester, Birmingham, Croydon, Blackpool, Stoke-on-Trent, Dudley and the Wirral.
In the crosshairs
Among the MPs who could be blocked from standing are those who could be used against the party if it wins the general election next year.
Liam Byrne, the MP for Birmingham Hodge Hill, was behind the letter left in the Treasury after the 2010 election, which said there was “no money” left.
The letter is still being used as an attack line by the Tories. More recently he was found to have bullied a member of staff in what the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards found was a “significant misuse of power”. He apologised and said he was “profoundly sorry”.
Earlier this year he was found to have misused public expenses in his failed West Midlands mayoral campaign. He denied wrongdoing and although he accepted the findings of the investigation refused to apologise.
Khalid Mahmood, the MP for Birmingham, Perry Barr, was embroiled in an employment tribunal with a former staff member. The tribunal found his aide Elaina Cohen was unfairly dismissed and “isolated” after raising concerns.
The cost of the tribunal paid by the taxpayer was almost £40,000.
Neil Coyle, the MP for Bermondsey and Old Southwark, has on a number of occasions had to apologise for the use of crude language and was accused of making sinophobic remarks to a journalist in a Westminster bar last year.
Coyle had the Labour whip suspended and was banned from all of parliament’s bars. An investigation found he had breached parliament’s bullying and harassment policy and he was suspended from the Commons for five days.
Earlier this year it was revealed he had previously had a sexual harassment complaint against him upheld.
All three MPs were contacted for comment.
Separately, investigations are still continuing into the conduct of Bambos Charalambous, a former shadow Foreign Office minister and the MP for Enfield, Southgate, after a complaint. He was suspended from the party and said he would co-operate with the investigation.
Complaints against Geraint Davies, the MP for Swansea West, are also being investigated after allegations of sexual harassment made by a number of women, which Davies denies.
Next week also marks a year since Nick Brown, the veteran MP, was suspended from the party after a complaint. The MP for Newcastle upon Tyne East had been chief whip for every Labour leader from Sir Tony Blair onwards.
Seems pretty unlikely, to be honest. Chucking Liam overboard is definitely not going to stop the Tories bringing up that fucking stupid note he wrote, though he is guilty of much worse conduct. A bit of silly season mischief here, I think.
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By Andy McDandy
#51852
Combo of silly season mischief* and no shit Sherlock. No sources named, all "understood" and "thought to be".

*Urgh, "mischief". Can we please get away from this fucking "Coo er gosh aren't we naughty schoolkids" shit from journos? Just call it what it is - acting the cunt.
User avatar
By Abernathy
#51891
Andy McDandy wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2023 3:14 pm
*Urgh, "mischief". Can we please get away from this fucking "Coo er gosh aren't we naughty schoolkids" shit from journos? Just call it what it is - acting the cunt.

Yeah, sorry about that. Odd how easily you fall into line with the prevailing vernacular. Malevolent distortion and lies may be more accurate.
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By Arrowhead
#52011
The Weeping Angel wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 12:39 pm Starmer is reshuffling the shadow cabinet

https://labourlist.org/2023/09/labour-r ... r-updates/
Brutal for poor old Lisa Nandy.

Not sure what happened there, she seemed to be one of the most capable members of the Shadow Cabinet. Seems to have fallen completely out of favour with the leadership for some reason.
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By Malcolm Armsteen
#52012
I'm finding it difficult to understand - as Mrs A said, in surprise, "I thought she was doing OK"
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By Abernathy
#52019
I don’t see it as a “demotion” for Lisa. International Development is going to be a crucially important field in the next decade or so, and Lisa is so capable of taking the role back out of the FO and restoring it to full prominence and strength. Lisa is enough of a team player to understand this and run with it.
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By Tubby Isaacs
#52036
I think it's hard to argue that this isn't a demotion for Nandy, but it might be a good move for her. Levelling up isn't going to get that much extra money, and hard to see how it's not going to disappoint a lot of people in the short term. So she's into another job where it's going to be much easier to look like she's meeting a positive challenge and on top of.

Liz Kendall is an odd appointment. Despite being an apparent high flyer she'd not flown very high. I'd have had Nandy in her job.

Owen Jones is typically cheery, still talking about "Blairites" hostile to public provision of services and public investment.. Apart from the way that some of the stuff was funded (PFI, though it wasn't as bad as the figures sometimes make it look) I recall that era as being pretty good for public services, and a decent amount of public investment.
By Youngian
#52067
The headline suggests Starmer is moving towards national protectionism which would be an economic and strategic disaster. But reading between the lines it’s government support for modernisation which is welcome. If Red Wall pensioners read it as Labour to impose patriotic import bans then so what?
British steel will be used to make warships if I get into power, promises Keir Starmer
The Labour Leader said he would make Britain a world leader in clean steel to provide jobs for the future as he promised to change how the country dishes out defence contracts https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... e_vignette
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