Mailwatch(ed) Forum

Russia on a mission to 'cause mayhem' in the UK, warns MI5 boss.

They'll be chewing their cheeks in Moscow tonight. Seemingly Moldova - apparently, one of the most welcoming and good-humoured corners of this earth - has rejected Russia and will edge ever-closer to the EU.

Sandu's win is far from resounding, but it is, at least, a smack in the chops for Putin's gangsterati.

Tomorrow is the start of a new week.

Russia vows tough response after Ukraine gets permission to use long-range missiles to strike into their territory.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789x0y91vvo

'Watch out, we'll continue to fund groups around the world who like to blow stuff up'. I'd be very surprised if there was anything more than that. Hopefully, at least... Ukraine has been using western weaponry for months, has been attacking Russian targets for months.

The realpolitik cloak the fuckers in Budapest, Mar a Lago and elsewhere are now donning is revolting.

NevTheSweeper wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 6:05 pm Russia vows tough response after Ukraine gets permission to use long-range missiles to strike into their territory.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c789x0y91vvo

Ukraine has been carrying out drone strikes deep in Russian territory for months. If Russia had the capacity for a 'tough response' to such action they'd have done it by now.

Anyone else slightly puzzled that the USA, the UK, France etc apparently supply long-range missiles to Ukraine that they then need to get special permission actually to use ?

What’s the point of supplying them if they can’t be used ?

Abernathy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 8:17 pm Anyone else slightly puzzled that the USA, the UK, France etc apparently supply long-range missiles to Ukraine that they then need to get special permission actually to use ?

What’s the point of supplying them if they can’t be used ?

Indeed, either you trust your ally or you don't...it makes no sense to me.

It was probably wise to have those missiles in place, lest the time should come that they need to be deployed.

That time has obviously come. Putin's running out of options, but his last big play is less than palatable.

He has the option to go "tactical" nuclear, I suppose, but who knows how the West would deal with stepping back from that? (We would probably have about seven minutes to find out.)

Abernathy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 8:17 pm Anyone else slightly puzzled that the USA, the UK, France etc apparently supply long-range missiles to Ukraine that they then need to get special permission actually to use ?

What’s the point of supplying them if they can’t be used ?

Because those countries are NATO and Ukraine isn't, so their use might signify that NATO is now involved. The answer is to ensure that the missiles do not cause damage inside Russia or kill Russians, as that would be an act of war by NATO and could (could) provoke an all-out nuclear response by Russia.

Also, it binds Trump to either back NATO, or carry out his threat to leave the alliance. He may well get some stiff resistance to the latter from the actual US military, not the Walts he's just appointed to his cabinet. Shit or get off the toilet.

Malcolm Armsteen wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 9:24 pm

Abernathy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 8:17 pm Anyone else slightly puzzled that the USA, the UK, France etc apparently supply long-range missiles to Ukraine that they then need to get special permission actually to use ?

What’s the point of supplying them if they can’t be used ?

Because those countries are NATO and Ukraine isn't, so their use might signify that NATO is now involved. The answer is to ensure that the missiles do not cause damage inside Russia or kill Russians, as that would be an act of war by NATO and could (could) provoke an all-out nuclear response by Russia.

Hmmm. Not sure that ‘s correct - NATO countries already are involved. If it is, then why has Biden now suddenly decided apparently to risk provoking an all-out Russian nuclear response? If the missiles were being made available, doesn’t that suggest that their use against Russia was at least anticipated at some point ?

Meanwhile I am enjoying some *ahem* light relief, catching up with the news of North Korean soldiers in Russia "gorging themselves" on internet porn.
Internet access is very heavily restricted in North Korea with the result that 10,000 young men are experiencing limitless hardcore pornography for the first time in their lives with entirely predictable results.
It seems there's been something of a break down in discipline as, rather than go and confront some very angry, battle-hardened Ukrainians, some of the troops would rather stay in their sleeping bags wanking themselves into a coma.

I suspect many of them may try to desert - when they get their breath back.

Abernathy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 10:33 pm

Malcolm Armsteen wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 9:24 pm

Abernathy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 8:17 pm Anyone else slightly puzzled that the USA, the UK, France etc apparently supply long-range missiles to Ukraine that they then need to get special permission actually to use ?

What’s the point of supplying them if they can’t be used ?

Because those countries are NATO and Ukraine isn't, so their use might signify that NATO is now involved. The answer is to ensure that the missiles do not cause damage inside Russia or kill Russians, as that would be an act of war by NATO and could (could) provoke an all-out nuclear response by Russia.

Hmmm. Not sure that ‘s correct - NATO countries already are involved. If it is, then why has Biden now suddenly decided apparently to risk provoking an all-out Russian nuclear response? If the missiles were being made available, doesn’t that suggest that their use against Russia was at least anticipated at some point ?

Some NATO countries have supported Ukraine, but NATO is not involved and the countries supporting are not putting troops on the ground, just supplying arms. It's fine definitions to avoid an all-in conflict.

Abernathy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 8:17 pm Anyone else slightly puzzled that the USA, the UK, France etc apparently supply long-range missiles to Ukraine that they then need to get special permission actually to use ?

What’s the point of supplying them if they can’t be used ?

Very similar to Britain's "independent" nuclear deterrent.

Bones McCoy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 12:00 am

Abernathy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 8:17 pm Anyone else slightly puzzled that the USA, the UK, France etc apparently supply long-range missiles to Ukraine that they then need to get special permission actually to use ?

What’s the point of supplying them if they can’t be used ?

Very similar to Britain's "independent" nuclear deterrent.

Not really, because the missiles supplied to Ukraine are not nuclear and will, almost certainly, be used.

Malcolm Armsteen wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 11:56 pm
Some NATO countries have supported Ukraine, but NATO is not involved and the countries supporting are not putting troops on the ground, just supplying arms. It's fine definitions to avoid an all-in conflict.

When you stop to think about this, it becomes obvious that it is patently absurd. Putin is reported to be deploying troops on the ground from North Korea in his war on Ukraine, yet NATO is supposed to pussy-foot around in case Putin decides he is in an all out war with the whole of NATO? Putin has been making veiled threats of using Russian nuclear weapons every other month almost ever since he first invaded Ukraine, but he is patently bluffing. Time to drop the pretence - Biden has made the right call - at last. What is the purpose of NATO, if not fighting a cause like this ? Ukraine aspires to NATO membership. How about getting them in?

Give it three months and it'll all be over. Trump will simply hand Ukraine over to his pal.

Up to 2014, NATO were happily signing up new members. Then, just before their Newport conference, they got all antsy about anyone new joining. Reason - Russia had annexed Crimea and Ukraine wanted in.

Depends who the last person in Trump's ear is. If some donors from arms manufacturers tell him supplying Ukraine and replacing the weapons is actually great, he might carry on with it.

Germany has stepped up its military spending pretty well from its historic pathetic level, and has done some good work on its energy supplies. But I worry about their support for Ukraine.