[kreuzberger]

It was the political con of the century; convincing some of 26% of the electorate, the most poorly educated, chip-pan dwelling racists, to vote for an impossible dream, namely Sunlit Uplands for themselves and fuck their colleagues, their neighbours, and their wider family's kids' dreams.

The political con of all time was to convince them that anyone who thought this anything other than a brilliant idea is a sneering, condescending elitist. Or, an Enemy of the People.

It was and still is utter bollocks. We tried to reason them out of it. Granted, on the odd occasion we had to go duosyllabic but, hey, if you want to discuss macro-economics and pan continental trading and political relationships with the grown-ups , well, sometimes a series of sour Stella and Lambrini infused grunts won't quite cut the Coleman's.

No, this fact- and evidence-free bandwagon of delusion trundled in to the summer of 2016, bawling "project fear!!111!" everytime it crashed in to what was so obvious and thoroughly predictable.

Like spoiled children of lottery winners, we urged them not to run with scissors and now they are telling us that they love bleeding and it's the bestest feeling "in.the.wewld." while farming, finance, and the city are in flames, supermarket shelves are gathering dust.

That doesn't make us snobbish but it does confirm that they are 26% of the electorate, the most poorly educated, chip-pan dwelling racists etc, etc, etc.

[mattomac]

Try and convince me that Gove, Johnson, Cummings, Minford, Lawson, Tebbit, Farage, Banks oh and Skelton and so on and so on are not the Elite.

Polling shows that it was mostly middle class and working class who no longer work were the biggest Brexit voters. Those who benefitted from the post war consensus those who could walk from one job to the other and those who were able to buy housing at a cut price level.

And I have nothing against them but Sefton voted Remain (it’s richest area voted leave), Liverpool voted remain, lots of London the poorest areas of the country voted remain.

Those working three jobs, those one wage slip from homelessness, those with no pension pot, I know people like that voted remain as they are me and many of my friends.

So I’m sorry it’s nothing to do with poverty level, mostly those who voted Brexit have had everything and many from what has expressed since were against others having something.

Evidenced in the rise of racism and homophobia.

Oh and frankly you can do one in regards “the bubble”, the fuckers I listed above are in their own bubble, they hate it when they are challenged (see the England team and the knee or Greta Thunberg on climate change), look at their fucking comments and tell me they aren’t fucking snobs.

Frankly your pipe bomb patronising is getting tedious.

[Boiler]

And yet, suddenly the posts here are falling into line with what Skelton describes... condescending and patronising.

[davidjay]

The big problem we have with accusations of snobbery, patronising and saying the other lot are stupid is that this is a nation where calling someone clever is an insult. So when we use things like facts and evidence and they've got a Sun editorial, it's incredibly difficult not to appear intelligent because compared to them we are. Trouble is, it's easier to win an argument with a wise man than with a fool.

[Youngian]

Oh, that rings a bell.

Fox looks like a standard Euston crime drama but its a lot more than that. A profile of a family and city in flux that, with the benefit of hindsight, got so many observations right.

[Boiler]

Due, I'd say, to having Trevor Preston write it.

[Boiler]

The big problem we have with accusations of snobbery, patronising and saying the other lot are stupid is that this is a nation where calling someone clever is an insult.

I'd say that was a regional thing though - I've never heard it used round here and let's be honest, it is a sarcastic remark. There used to be a real nasty bit of work on a newsgroup I once followed who was one for begrudging folk with their degrees over his experience though.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

You've never heard the expression 'Too clever by half'?
It's national, and it's serious, I've seen the research. Not as bad as Australia though.

Which regions were you thinking of?

[RedSparrows]

And yet, suddenly the posts here are falling into line with what Skelton describes... condescending and patronising.

Whilst, yes, it's easy to condescend and in our serious moods shouldn't be encouraged, this idea that the 'elite' are conceited and worthless know it alls and the poor working man is a stout, worthy, true yeoman is absolute toss. In its own way it's also deeply conceited and patronising. We just end up trading one myopia for another.

[kreuzberger]

It all depends on your definition of condescending. If you're lending a sympathetic ear to "legitimate concerns", you're pandering to squalid racism and ignorance being worn as a badge of honour.

Fuck them. I'll take the insults all day long rather than lay down with those dogs.

[Andy McDandy]

In the book on the 90s and the Cool Britannia years I read recently, several people pinpointed a particular moment in 1998 as when the flip happened and cool became arrogant.

The release of "Vindaloo". A song both taking the piss out of moronic xenophobia, and eagerly embraced by the people it poked fun at. The joke was on us. Suddenly being a thick cunt was an aspiration.

[Bones McCoy]

And yet, suddenly the posts here are falling into line with what Skelton describes... condescending and patronising.

Phone in caller: Speeks her branes.
Phone in caller #2: Offers informed alternate viewpoint, with some evidence.
Original caller: I didn't come here to be attacked.

Let's face it, the standard of debate in this country is rock bottom.
A situation that's only been encouraged by our print press, our leading politicians and their spinny friends.
"If you like rhetoric so much, why don't you go live there".

[The All New KevS]

I've said before that if you look at Election coverage up to 1983, the standard of debate is far higher than today, with opponents clearly having respect for each other, even the George Brown/Robin Day dust up in 1964.

[Youngian]

The big problem we have with accusations of snobbery, patronising and saying the other lot are stupid is that this is a nation where calling someone clever is an insult. So when we use things like facts and evidence and they've got a Sun editorial, it's incredibly difficult not to appear intelligent because compared to them we are. Trouble is, it's easier to win an argument with a wise man than with a fool.

Calling clever people posh is a worse insult than those who use it think it is. Its saying you're a bit thick but were handed it on a plate. Not someone who uses lardy-da words.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Oh, that rings a bell.

Fox looks like a standard Euston crime drama but its a lot more than that. A profile of a family and city in flux that, with the benefit of hindsight, got so many observations right.

The Fox family have some criminal links- Ray has been inside and he deals with Kenny's kidnappers like a pro- but it's only really in the background. The other sons are straight and have respectable partners.

It's brilliant social commentary as you say. London as a declining city. The most upwardly mobile son is trying to get out. The left wing son gets nicked in Covent Garden for shouting about advertising agencies taking over.

[Boiler]

I note it had a video release. Hmmm. Also noted: produced by Verity Lambert, no less.

Maybe one for the winter, along with buying the black and white Callan episodes (which may encourage me to fix my CRT telly).

[davidjay]

In the book on the 90s and the Cool Britannia years I read recently, several people pinpointed a particular moment in 1998 as when the flip happened and cool became arrogant.

The release of "Vindaloo". A song both taking the piss out of moronic xenophobia, and eagerly embraced by the people it poked fun at. The joke was on us. Suddenly being a thick cunt was an aspiration.

I can't see how a song that begins "Where the hell are you from?/We're from England" is ever not going to appeal to bigots.

[Andy McDandy]

Ah, but Keith Allen, Alex James and Damien Hirst were being ironic.

[MisterMuncher]

You'll find no one who holds the working class or the less educated in greater contempt than their nominal "champions" in the press and broader media. Allen, James and Hirst are only the tip of that iceberg.

It's (possibly) one form of snobbery to point out the (supposed) errors in someone's mindset. It's quite another to see that ignorance and feed it, tell them they're right and just use them as an asset and voting bloc to do whatever the fuck you like.

[Youngian]

It's quite another to see that ignorance and feed it, tell them they're right and just use them as an asset and voting bloc to do whatever the fuck you like.

Not sure Paul Mason's defintion of facsism holds up but its contains a wider truth; 'A temporary alliance between the elite and the mob.'