[Boiler]

See: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58186519

He is referring to the savage war of words between Leavers and Remainers that played out on social media in the weeks following the referendum.

"The number of times I heard people described as stupid or under-educated or bigoted," he says, was "really annoying for me, because these are my friends, these are my family who are anything but bigoted and the very opposite of it."

According to Skelton, Leavers were subjected to abuse from people "generally wealthier and better educated than them - or with a higher level of academic education".

In his book, he argues that this is a new form of snobbery, more "insidious" than traditional forms because it "questions people's ability to participate in the democratic process".

Discuss.

[Bones McCoy]

OK I'll start.

One only needs to watch clips from the James O'Brien show to see the "snobbery" in all its glory.

Leaver turns up equipped with aggression, opinion and little else.
Finds themselves rapidly outwitted by such cunning challenges as "Please go on", "So how's that tougher border working out".
Attempts to steamroll on with their initial point, gets angry..

For all their 18-million votes, the leavers have struggled to present us with a clever, educated and unbigoted archetype.
For all their funding, they have failed to find relatable ordinary spokespeople.

Is there nobody in that gaping gap between Weatherspoons rejects and the upper cabal of slimy multi millionaire leaders, and their entourage of grifters who aspire to that status.


The leavers started the abuse, launched the culture war, introduced the language of violence and intimidation.
Eventually one of them murdered an MP.

Skelton's (with his pen pusher job and "book learning") final assertion: "questions people's ability to participate in the democratic process" is a typical paragraph 19 strawman.
Voter suppression is very much alive and well in the committees and think tanks of the right (the drivers of Brexit).
Skelton may imagine it being top of the agenda at those Hampsted dinner parties.
I've not been either, but I'd bet a week's wage that Brexit only features in the context of "Conversations at Waitrose" food supply problems.
They'll be far more interested in Tom Stoppard's latest production, or when the Montessori will be back to full capacity.

I think that aggressive, uninformed and potentially violent people are a poor reflection on this union of nations.
If that makes me a snob, then I'll claim the title without any irony.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

Yes.
It's so very easy in our society, when losing the argument, to claim that the winning side is displaying snobbery, when in fact the losing side is simply displaying stupidity.

The article is bollocks.


(See also 'smug')

[Boiler]

Playing Devil's Advocate here:

So how and why did the Remainers fail to convince those inclined to Leave that it really wouldn't be a good idea? Was it because they soon started to patronise and condescend?

Why were there arguments (where presented) not work?

For the record, I have lost friends because I described Leavers as "thick racists".

[Bones McCoy]

Playing Devil's Advocate here:

So how and why did the Remainers fail to convince those inclined to Leave that it really wouldn't be a good idea? Was it because they soon started to patronise and condescend?

Why were there arguments (where presented) not work?

For the record, I have lost friends because I described Leavers as "thick racists".

We have to remember that "The Reminers" were represented by the half hearted pairing of Cameron and Osborne.
Meanwhile the Leavers had several focussed campaigns.
5 (or is it six) newspapers with 20 years back copy.
Laura's odd interpretation of balance from the BBC.
Many local and national radio stations.
A bottomless pool of dark money.

Dodgy Dave brought a fly swatter to a gunfight. Then flounced off to a cushy lobby job.

I'm not sure that fully answers your question, but it's the first thing that springs to mind.

[Andy McDandy]

"Be nice to nerds. Chances are you'll end up working for one." - Bill Gates.

"You cannot reason with a punch to the face." - Jean Paul Sartre (paraphrased).

Leave was the revenge of the thick. A chance to show the clever bastards who thought they were all that, the really cool people, the smartarses and wimps, that when it came down to it, they were nothing before the mob. You might have your clever arguments, but what good are they against a kick in the bollocks? And so what if I get into trouble? You'll still be doubled over in pain.

[The Weeping Angel]

As with a lot of things there's an element of truth to this thesis. But it's mostly bollocks as Bones points out it was the leavers who started it with their abuse of us so don't be surprised when people fought back.

[Spoonman]

This largely concurs with what Bones has said, but this cry of "snobbery" is just a typical example of right-wing political correctness. Cry for "civility" after you've displayed none yourself up until now.

[Andy McDandy]

Kyle's mum. Do all sorts of awful things, then lay into the enemy for using naughty words.

[Youngian]

Speaking as a Remoaner whose relatives were nearly all Leavers (some UKIP voters), they had no fucking idea what they were talking about. You could portray that as snobbery in 2016 but now its an unquestionable fact.
Perhaps you’ve an opening line to put out the feelers as to how someone voted. Mine is a trivial matter of how its not worth the extra expense of going abroad now pet passports have ended. I get a lot of heads bowing but no one prepared to have a go and tell me Brexit was worth it even for cheaper holidays with the doggies.

[Boiler]

As with a lot of things there's an element of truth to this thesis. But it's mostly bollocks as Bones points out it was the leavers who started it with their abuse of us so don't be surprised when people fought back.

"He started it" really is the stuff of the playground.

I'm not so sure this is true. For a long time people have sneered at those perceived as less well educated or mannered - Jasper Carrott and his "Sun readers" - and "chavs", anybody? So is it any surprise that those ridiculed by and sneered at by those who can now be conveniently grouped under the title "metropolitan liberal elite" themselves fought back?

If you really want to piss the average person off, tell them they're thick and they don't know what they're talking about. It may be true, but you will almost always gain a hostile response, especially when they know they're being patronised.

People here might like James O'Brien, but plenty think he's a poisonous, patronising cunt.

[Youngian]

I'm not so sure this is true. For a long time people have sneered at those perceived as less well educated or mannered - "Sun readers" and "chavs", anybody? So is it any surprise that those ridiculed by and sneered at by those who can now be conveniently grouped under the title "metropolitan liberal elite" themselves fought back?

Fought back how, by taking Jacob Rees Mogg’s advice? Most families are very pleased their relatives who want swanning off to the big city are doing well. And those ‘metropolitan elite’ migrants grow out ‘ha ha look at the mugs stuck in square town’ quickly as life isn’t that much different. Neither side wants to heard cats.

[Boiler]

You know what I mean: they took the chance that the Brexit referendum offered them to cock a snook at those they felt had ignored them for decades - later, repeated when Labour's support collapsed in the Midlands and North.

It can be illuminating to spend time out of the left-leaning bubble.

[The Weeping Angel]

You know what I mean: they took the chance that the Brexit referendum offered them to cock a snook at those they felt had ignored them for decades - later, repeated when Labour's support collapsed in the Midlands and North.

It can be illuminating to spend time out of the left-leaning bubble.

Yeah but what has it got them? Nothing that's what. Don't give me they were patronised and talked down to. The media spent the last five years coddling them sending reporters up on Stoke safaris where a few pensioners were treated as the will of the people.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I'm not so sure this is true. For a long time people have sneered at those perceived as less well educated or mannered - "Sun readers" and "chavs", anybody? So is it any surprise that those ridiculed by and sneered at by those who can now be conveniently grouped under the title "metropolitan liberal elite" themselves fought back?

Fought back how, by taking Jacob Rees Mogg’s advice? Most families are very pleased their relatives who want swanning off to the big city are doing well. And those ‘metropolitan elite’ migrants grow out ‘ha ha look at the mugs stuck in square town’ quickly as life isn’t that much different. Neither side wants to heard cats.

Yep. Whatever David Goodhart says, nobody seriously thinks their own kids shouldn't go where they want to go, university, work, lifestyle, relationships. At the end of Fox, the rebellious leftwing intellectual one comes back from New York and gives a speech about his traditionalist Dad having been right about family. Maybe, but it helps if your family live in Clapham, not Torfaen. Plus, Fox was made in 1980.

[Boiler]

You know what I mean: they took the chance that the Brexit referendum offered them to cock a snook at those they felt had ignored them for decades - later, repeated when Labour's support collapsed in the Midlands and North.

It can be illuminating to spend time out of the left-leaning bubble.

Yeah but what has it got them? Nothing that's what. Don't give me they were patronised and talked down to. The media spent the last five years coddling them sending reporters up on Stoke safaris where a few pensioners were treated as the will of the people.

You've missed the point I was making - this goes back way before Brexit. This last five years has just given the chattering media classes something to latch onto and discuss in a tapas bar or whatever is trendy these days.

I would say it has got "them" something - a feeling they're not being taken for granted any more.

[Boiler]

At the end of Fox, the rebellious leftwing intellectual one comes back from New York and gives a speech about his traditionalist Dad having been right about family. Maybe, but it helps if your family live in Clapham, not Torfaen. Plus, Fox was made in 1980.

What is "Fox", for someone who's not very good at popular culture references?

[Tubby Isaacs]

What is "Fox", for someone who's not very good at popular culture references?

Excellent ITV drama series written by Trevor Preston and made by Euston Films from 1980.

Ought to be much better known than it is.

[Boiler]

Oh, that rings a bell.

[Tubby Isaacs]

It's on youtube sometime. Good way to pass 13 hours (minus time taken up by adverts originally).