[soulboy]

That's not blood, it's red diesel. They should have dipped a few tanks to see how farmers feel about tax.

[The Weeping Angel]

Good article here by Will Hutton.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... SApp_Other

One of the baleful dimensions of our times is the way that the conversation about what constitutes the good society is framed by the rich and their interests. A conception of the common good withers; instead it is replaced by the existential importance of private wealth, private interests and private ownership to societal health. Nowhere is this more exposed than in the debate over taxation, and in particular the taxation of inherited wealth – as the debate over the past fortnight has dramatised.

Half a million people die every year. Under the reforms to inheritance tax relief on agricultural land proposed in the budget, about 500 individuals who inherit land worth more than £2m (£3m if they were married to the deceased) will join the rest of society and have inheritance tax levied on their bequest – albeit at half the rate, with an enlarged exemption and 10 years to pay it, concessions not made to the rest of us. How fortunate and privileged are they?

Yet ever since, the National Farmers Union, Historic Houses, the Tory party, the rightwing media and, inevitably, Elon Musk have behaved as if the move represents a new communist dictatorship. Edward Stanley, the 19th Earl of Derby, denizen of Merseyside’s Knowsley Hall where his family has lived since 1385, represented their united view. “Taking 20% of a business away every generation is just a shockingly awful concept for a government that wants growth,” he told the Financial Times. Positioning himself as a wealth-creating small business, he insisted it “would kill off farming and heritage businesses” like his. According to the lobby, a new age of Jacobin terror has been unleashed – production will collapse, rural Britain will be devastated, and all for a trivial amount of money. Rarely have 500 very privileged people got so hysterical – and commanded so much attention.

[Youngian]

about 500 individuals who inherit land worth more than £2m (£3m if they were married to the deceased) will join the rest of society and have inheritance tax levied on their bequest – albeit at half the rate, with an enlarged exemption and 10 years to pay it, concessions not made to the rest of us. How fortunate and privileged are they?

Not to mention other tax free sweetners and planning privileges the rest of us don't have access to. Don't begrudge them as it's a crucial and precarious business but plenty do which is why farmers genrally like to keep their mouths shut about it.

[Killer Whale]

Those farmers' demands in full:

• No tax

• More chicken shit and black plastic in the rivers

• Free money

• Get off my land

[Andy McDandy]

You forgot amendments to the marriage laws regarding close relations.

[davidjay]

I was talking to a fairly wealthy and very Tory elderly relative this afternoon. She lives out in the bucolic shires, surrounded by farmland. "Don't talk to me about farmers," she said. "Everybody round here knows how much they've got. " As she put it, they might not earn much in cash terms but they don't pay rent or mortgages, can write off much of their spending as business expenses and a good few labourers cottages have been sold for tidy sums.

[AOB]

Warning retail job cuts ‘inevitable’ after Budget

We'll clobber the poor people unless you keep us rich! Hope the Government don't cave, like with the farmers, the rich have all just had 14 years of the Tories looking after them. If everything stays the same as it was then what's the point of having General Elections? And all of the above use the public as hostages in their demands to stay rich and not pay their dues.

Tesco, Amazon, Greggs, Next, and dozens of other chains are urging the Treasury to reconsider some of the measures.

Amazon in particular have got a nerve. Cheeky tax avoiding cunts.

[mattomac]

It's what I was thinking when I saw it.

Also from my time working at the Job Centre some of the worst offenders at zero hour contracts and pay. Tesco loved their 15 hours 45 minute contracts.

[Andy McDandy]

High streets have been in decline for decades. First it was due to localised shopping precincts, then it was out of town malls. Then Starbucking and the Internet. And no matter how many Mary Portas types you send up and down them, they're not going to recover.

Sorry to repeat myself but find and watch the Greg Wallace "High Street Through Time" thing. Points out very succinctly that savings and convenience will always win out over personalised service and charming boutiques.

[Oboogie]

High streets have been in decline for decades. First it was due to localised shopping precincts, then it was out of town malls. Then Starbucking and the Internet. And no matter how many Mary Portas types you send up and down them, they're not going to recover.

Sorry to repeat myself but find and watch the Greg Wallace "High Street Through Time" thing. Points out very succinctly that savings and convenience will always win out over personalised service and charming boutiques.

If you don't use it, you lose it. I go back to the Woolworths closure which must be nearly 20 years ago. Loads of people in the college where I worked getting misty eyed about how much they love Woolies. "When did you last buy anything there?" was met with childhood memories, largely about how easy it was to steal the pick'n'mix...that's not a sound business model.
Answering my own question: Ironically, I had recently shopped in Woolies - for the first time in over 20 years. Christmas Eve I'd run out of wrapping paper and Woolies was the only shop in town which wasn't queuing out the door. The staff were literally standing around chatting. In the city centre. At lunchtime. On Christmas Eve.
That's a business which is no longer wanted.

[The Weeping Angel]

Very depressing thread.

[davidjay]

Very depressing thread.

To paraphrase one of the replies, tough decisions are for the little people.

[mattomac]

As I said see also the VAT on private schools nonsense.

Some high streets will remain viable but Kingston I note has 7 shoe shops which sort of suggests there are certain things people don’t buy online.

Kingston is probably helped by having a Marks and Waitrose and sort of being an already set up 15 minute town where even the big Sainsbury can be got to within 8-10 minute walk.

Amazon are a classic though, and the reason why I’ve bought one thing off them in about 20 years.

[RedSparrows]

Boycotting Amazon is phenomenally easy for me. They simply don't exist in my world, other than using things on AWS which I cannot avoid (work, for one).

[Killer Whale]

Mrs Whale is absolutely addicted to her Amazon Prime account. Any minor problem that life throws at us can be solved by ordering Chinese tat for next day delivery. Apparently.
Living an arduous drive from Cardiff and an even more arduous train journey from Swansea doesn't help in this. When online becomes your default high street, you tend to lose a lot of the discipline ("is this really worth the journey, or can we make do?") of consumerism.

[mattomac]

I tend to look on eBay if I need something.

[The Weeping Angel]

I like James Ball a lot but I'm struggling to understand his reaction to this.

[Crabcakes]

Very depressing thread.

Problem is, *we* all agreed. The people being affected - who I absolutely agree need to pay their way, for avoidance of any doubt - didn’t. And they just so happen to be the ones who have mates who run newspapers, news channels and think-tanks.

[Youngian]

I like James Ball a lot but I'm struggling to understand his reaction to this.

Black Rock are not just toxic to conspiricists so of all the companies to single out. In general Starmer shouldn't be driven by optics when networking with capital. 'Labour don't understand business' if he doesn't' 'Starmer part of the international elite' if he does.

[Bones McCoy]

I like James Ball a lot but I'm struggling to understand his reaction to this.

When people's objections begin "I don't understand" or "I don't get it" there are three things to consider.

1. They do understand, but they're attempting to "sealion" you into a long dull explanation.
2. They understand the basic concept, but something is beyond their imagination.
3. They're really not very bright.


Number 1 is a bad actor trying some cheeky school debating club manoeuvres.
Number 2 is quite common from the "back in my day we always did it this way" brigade.
I've also seen it a lot in wargame rule reviews written by folk who are fairly well established along the spectrum.
Number 3 is typical of Xitter trolls.