[RedSparrows]

Not to too happily deploy the whataboutery card, but Corbyn was hardly some economic genius.He just said the right soundbytes for his fans.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Nor did any of them. Just "say no to neoliberalism and austerity" and everything works.

[Youngian]

As Jez in No 10 wanted to end FoM and leave the SM, Bastani would have a hard time telling the world that the same shortages and spending would have happened under the Tories. Despite being right.

[Youngian]

Out on Friday; Starmer goes rogue in ‘Geronimo Must Die!’ “I don't know who you are. But I will find you. And I will kill you.”

[Tubby Isaacs]

As Jez in No 10 wanted to end FoM and leave the SM, Bastani would have a hard time telling the world that the same shortages and spending would have happened under the Tories. Despite being right.

Did we ever hear what Jez's alternative Brexit which wouldn't have pissed away support to Lib Dems and Greens would look like?

I think there's an argument that in terms of seats Jez might have done better to run on Brexit, but as we've been told so many times by his pals, it's vote share that counts.

[Youngian]

Jez might have done better to run on Brexit

Better for the LDs, Labour didn’t even win in Islington North in the locals and Euros that year. Brexiters wouldn’t have voted for Corbyn if he cut and pasted UKIP’s manifesto.

[Tubby Isaacs]

He'd have held Islington North in the election. Would have lost Putney, but there are more Blyth Valleys than Putneys. Losing 10,000 in Lewisham to win 2,000 in Leigh is a good trade under FPTP.

[mattomac]

No guarantee he would have won Leigh regardless though.

He got to the point when one half were no longer listening.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I think the best thing would have been a referendum on Johnson's deal. Then in the election campaign say "Don't want to discuss your oven ready deal then? OK, we will. It's shit. You work in services, thinking of voting Tory?"

Would have lost anyway, mind.

[Tubby Isaacs]

[Tubby Isaacs]

I'll never cease to be amazed that this stuff happens in Stroud. Actually, given that 7.5% voted Green there in 2019 and the incumbent left-wing Labour MP lost by 5.8%, I suppose I should no longer be surprised.

I love the "take real action" means vote for a bill that's going to lose by miles anyway, one presumes. It's a pretty obvious political trap he's avoiding anyway.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Starmer's been very critical of Biden. "Catastrophic". It is, but isn't going to get asked next what would you have done? I agree with this chap. Not sure it's a tenable position for the leader of the Labour Party now to say he'd have bunged thousands more troops in.

[Nigredo]

Indeed, some online gammonclaves have already laid into him "How dare he criticize anyone over the Middle-East, it's his bloody party wot started it all!"

[Youngian]

Indeed, some online gammonclaves have already laid into him "How dare he criticize anyone over the Middle-East, it's his bloody party wot started it all!"

I posted this article from 2003 when Starmer was being accused of being a Blairite war monger who wants to bomb Iraqi children. 'Just sounds like a lawyer,' was the reply. So that doesn't count or something. International law is for suits.

Sorry, Mr Blair, but 1441 does not authorise force
Keir Starmer
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... licy.iraq1

[Tubby Isaacs]

Good God.

Starmer's kicked Johnson and Raab's arses very hard, by the sound of it. He can definitely make good speeches when he wants to. But I'm wondering where this is taking him. If the US isn't interested, who else is going to be?

[Tubby Isaacs]

Not really sure what old Keir's supposed to have done wrong, but three times as many in a poll think he's handled it badly, rather than well. I'm not very confident that'll change "as the public gets to know him". He could lose the Jez fans and get no swing voters.

[Tubby Isaacs]

But at least Keir can say he's beating Dominic Raab, who's likely to fall further.

[Youngian]

Keir's nastying himself up. Good, can't fight the Tories from a lofty tower when they play and win in the sewer.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Fairly good progressive policy, you'd think. But oh no, Keeth said he'd abolish Universal Credit, so it's bad. Doubtless he did that because otherwise, he'd have Jez fans saying he was the same as IDS or whatever.

Predictable "why not just raise" and "subsidy to bad employers BTL". Overwhelming benefit is to employees. And good luck with coming up with a minimum wage that makes it worthwhile for low-skilled single parents to work without tax credits or enormous social costs from raising universal child benefit.

[Tubby Isaacs]

The 2019 Manifesto has some sensible improvements to Universal Credit, which would have made it much more humane. But what of the system that would replace it? I don't really have any sense of what it would be like. No mention of any other country's system we might copy.

Labour will scrap UC. We will
immediately stop moving people onto
it and design an alternative system that
treats people with dignity and respect.
Our ambition in designing this system
will be to end poverty by guaranteeing
a minimum standard of living.
We will start developing this system
immediately. But we have learned the
lessons from Tory failure: major policy
change can’t be delivered overnight,
especially when people’s lives depend
on it. So we will also implement an
emergency package of reforms to
mitigate some of the worst features
of UC while we develop our
replacement system.