[Crabcakes]

I have a question: how smart is Starmer?

Because on the one hand, you could argue that he let a fuss about political gifts get out of control.

But on the other, you could say that he’s engineered a situation where he’s now putting much stronger restrictions and ethnics around gifts in place and the Tories/Farage - who love a nice bung - can’t really complain or they’d look like hypocrites. And all this will be forgotten by the next election - but the Tories still won’t be able to take bungs.

It could just be coincidence. Or it could be beating the Tories and their client media at their own game.

So same question again: how smart is Starmer?

[Malcolm Armsteen]

Very.

[Andy McDandy]

Think you may well be right. This is political rope-a-dope. Compare to suckering Johnson over Partygate.

[Tubby Isaacs]

The trouble is that it's hurt him. When you rope a dope you're not supposed to get hurt yourself.

But it's going to be interesting when all the Tory leadership election spending is published.

[Youngian]

There was no effort from the government to circle the wagons to close down the hoo ha. Which was noticeably odd.

[kreuzberger]

An apology for slavery and an opening of reparations "conversations" would have done no harm to this government. It's not as if Bongo-Bongo Land is expecting a 17 tn cheque by Tuesday. Rather, this would mean an outpouring of education and healthcare aid, together with infrastructure projects which could also train up the UK's next generation.

The soft power dividend would be beyond parallel.

Instead, have we had Sir Keen Slaver yet?

[Tubby Isaacs]

It's also an enormous domestic political hot potato- see how the US Democrats have gone down the pan among white voters for trying to be relatively adult about race and history. The issues aren't in a vacuum- they're linked to immigration, "culture", foreign aid. Jenrick and Badenoch won't find it hard to point out less than exemplary behaviour by Commonwealth countries that they aren't exactly falling over themselves to apologize for.

It has to be done right. Starmer must be bemused at Harriet Harman, formerly Deputy Prime Minister, telling him of the importance of all the stuff her government barely bothered with, apart from an apology from Blair which was OK, but as the current discussion shows, hasn't exactly been filed away as the last word.

[Youngian]

Charles has bought the subject up as big daddy of the Commonwealth, as if this organisation matters. Don't know if the French, Dutch or Portugese are being targeted over reparations but they are still members of the world's largest trade bloc and ex colonies may wish to keep them sweet. The Leeuward island's banana exports enjoyed preferential treatment in the EU thanks to the UK and France keeping tariffs on cheaper imports from Central America grown in more favorable conditions. This was a massive help in sustaining small Caribbean island economies.
What leverage does the UK now have of any use to the West Indies? Fuck all so why not shake down the Brits.

[davidjay]

This is a lose-lose situation. Doing the right thing will cause another outburst of tabloid racism.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Charles has bought the subject up as big daddy of the Commonwealth, as if this organisation matters. Don't know if the French, Dutch or Portugese are being targeted over reparations but they are still members of the world's largest trade bloc and ex colonies may wish to keep them sweet. The Leeuward island's banana exports enjoyed preferential treatment in the EU thanks to the UK and France keeping tariffs on cheaper imports from Central America grown in more favorable conditions. This was a massive help in sustaining small Caribbean island economies.
What leverage does the UK now have of any use to the West Indies? Fuck all so why not shake down the Brits.

There was a big argument in the nineties about membership of the Single Market being bad for West Indian banana growers, wasn't there? I think Jez talked about it in the Commons, though I can't find the speech.

The difference is that the British still talk as though the Commonwealth is massively important. I doubt the Dutch talk like that.

[Bones McCoy]

Charles has bought the subject up as big daddy of the Commonwealth, as if this organisation matters. Don't know if the French, Dutch or Portugese are being targeted over reparations but they are still members of the world's largest trade bloc and ex colonies may wish to keep them sweet. The Leeuward island's banana exports enjoyed preferential treatment in the EU thanks to the UK and France keeping tariffs on cheaper imports from Central America grown in more favorable conditions. This was a massive help in sustaining small Caribbean island economies.
What leverage does the UK now have of any use to the West Indies? Fuck all so why not shake down the Brits.

There was a big argument in the nineties about membership of the Single Market being bad for West Indian banana growers, wasn't there? I think Jez talked about it in the Commons, though I can't find the speech.

The difference is that the British still talk as though the Commonwealth is massively important. I doubt the Dutch talk like that.

The Dutch connection to "former colonies" has a few cultural facets that mirror Britain.
* Raw materials, gold and world class sports people form the Caribbean/Sth America.
* Tasty food - to a bland food nation - from the East Indies.
* Reactionary political support, and finance from former African connections.