[kreuzberger]

Don't get me wrong, I am all for a homo-erotic party in Greece, but people with a cervix should keep to Kinder-Küche-Kirche?

[safe_timber_man]

Am I get into conspiracy territory here, or is it possible this was planned by the Carini camp? To do the fight but then drop out straight away to make a point? She did react with genuine shock when she was hit but at the same time, as a casual watcher of boxing, I don't think I've ever seen a boxer throw in the towel after the first hit like that.

Secondly, Rowling has really fucked herself here, hasn't she? At times I've been a bit disgusted by the violent rhetoric towards her by the more extreme corners of the Trans debate and found myself siding with her on some points. But her whole shtick is that there's two genders and that is the end of it. You're either a man or a woman. I suspect she jumped in without doing her research and genuinely thought Khelif was Trans, but the way she's doubled down and refusing to admit she's got this wrong (unless I've missed a tweet) is disgraceful and she's lost any credibility she might have had.

[satnav]

I've not watched much of the boxing but in the fights I have seen fighters have been very cagey in the first round. To take a blow to the face so early in a fight does smack as a lack of concentration on the the part Carini.

I think when women's boxing was first introduced to the Olympics it was a bit of a novelty. The boxer were very good technically but it wasn't as brutal as the men's boxing. Over time women's boxing has become more brutal because there are now more boxers who are training full-time so they are now fitter and stronger so it has become more brutal.

[Crabcakes]

Conspiracy? Dunno if it’s that so much as taking advantage of a situation in the moment. But 3 things are certain:
1. Imane Khelif is and has always been a woman. She is not cheating. She has only failed a test that was added partway through a competition on the whim of one man who was head of an increasingly discredited organisation. Therefore any suggestion she should not be allowed to compete now also has to state the ‘limits’ for every other sport, or it is simply misogyny that someone who looks too masculine for the comfort of some has had some level of success. Because if female boxers can be banned, then the exact same criteria needs to be set for hypermobile swimmers, high testosterone male weightlifters, archers with better than 20/20 vision and so on.
2. No one had an issue with Imane Khelif at Tokyo 2020, when she lost to an Irish boxer, under the same eligibility rules as are in use at this olympics. And in fact Khelif doesn’t have anything even approaching a perfect record. She has been beaten in contests plenty of times before, and similarly the opponents she has beaten haven’t immediately cried foul.
3. Boxing is about being hit quite hard. I think it’s an idiotic sport, but Carini’s primary complaint is she was hit quite hard. So there is a distinct possibility she’s just not very good, and saw an easy way to gracelessly take the heat off of her own sub-par performance at the expense of another athlete. Because ‘I was hit by a man’ is obviously more acceptable to her than ‘I was found wanting at the highest level of my sport’.

[Crabcakes]

And as a side note, I am pleased at least that a lot more people are seeing how really quite unpleasant Rowling is.

[Abernathy]

And as a side note, I am pleased at least that a lot more people are seeing how really quite unpleasant Rowling is.

Is she? Really? I don't know - I've never met her, but I'm curious to know how you are able to describe her in this way.

[safe_timber_man]

And as a side note, I am pleased at least that a lot more people are seeing how really quite unpleasant Rowling is.

Is she? Really? I don't know - I've never met her, but I'm curious to know how you are able to describe her in this way.

Literally this last outburst.

Since it all kicked off with her I've genuinely not understood the sheer hatred towards her, and in some cases agreed with her. Partly because I haven't exactly followed everything she's said but what I had seen from her didn't seem too radical, in the slightest.

But her firm stance has been that you're either a man or a woman. It's as simple as that. And Khelif is a woman. Always has been, always will be. Rowling labeled her a man. I think probably didn't do her research and thought she was Trans. She was wrong yet has not only not backed down and admitted her mistake but has fueled the pile on even more.

That, surely, is the making of an unpleasant person?

[Crabcakes]

It’s not just that, it’s her framing of it. She said that Imane had ‘the smirk of a male’ after beating a woman. Very deliberately misgendering someone she knows was born and has always been a woman, but going further and implying that that person is revelling in having got away with what she’s basically framing as a crime.

She wasn’t smirking, she was attempting to be polite to her opponent (who refused to shake her hand). It wasn’t a ‘beating’, it was a boxing match. And she is a woman - the very group Rowling claims to want to protect the rights of. Except now, it seems, if you don’t fit her personal definition you’re fair game for abuse.

[Crabcakes]

Seems I owe an apology - to Carini. It appears her original statement has been widely mistranslated and people (read: bigots and others out to cause trouble) have run with it deliberately to attack someone they see as not a woman.

She was disappointed with her own performance primarily and crying over that. She also did not misgender Khalef or suggest anything was suspect about her participation.

So again, if you’re after ideology rather than facts, there you go.

[zuriblue]

IMG_2649.jpeg (264.95 KiB) Viewed 1734 times

[Philip Marlow]

Seems I owe an apology - to Carini. It appears her original statement has been widely mistranslated and people (read: bigots and others out to cause trouble) have run with it deliberately to attack someone they see as not a woman.

Aye, I don’t think the speculation I’ve seen about Carini is particularly helpful. I’m nowhere near fluent enough in Italian to accurately parse her statements, and even if I were boxers can say some weird shit in the immediate aftermath of a loss. See Anthony Joshua’s bizarre carrying on after the second Usyk fight, or the batshit conspiracies Deontay Wilder came up with to explain getting beaten by Tyson Fury (including that he’d been poisoned by his own trainer).

I do follow boxing - with the usual boatload of ethical qualms attached - and the idea that, especially at Olympic level, with padding you obviously don’t get in the professional arena, it’s about two beefy fuckers each trying to launch the other’s head clean off their body owes more to the Rocky movies than reality. But if the ability to inflict the kind of damage that involves a broken nose and/or the bloodying of an opponent’s face is sufficient to cause this kind of furore then an awful lot of women boxers and mixed martial artists are going to be shocked to discover that they have been men all this time.

[davidjay]

I'm still shocked that this 'sport', where the object is to beat your opponent until they suffer brain damage such that they are rendered unconscious, continues to be part of the Olympics.

The counterargument is that the object of boxing is to avoid being hit, the majority of stoppages occur before serious damage is done and there are more dangerous sports than amateur boxing. I have a vested interest as a longtime follower and very brief participant but my argument is that while I could never justify it on moral grounds there are a lot worse things happening in sport and in the world.

[The Weeping Angel]

The IOC have massively fucked up on this.

[Philip Marlow]

I'm still shocked that this 'sport', where the object is to beat your opponent until they suffer brain damage such that they are rendered unconscious, continues to be part of the Olympics.

The counterargument is that the object of boxing is to avoid being hit, the majority of stoppages occur before serious damage is done and there are more dangerous sports than amateur boxing. I have a vested interest as a longtime follower and very brief participant but my argument is that while I could never justify it on moral grounds there are a lot worse things happening in sport and in the world.

The ur-example of this (regrettably, given that he’s a wife-beating prick outside the ring) probably being Floyd Mayweather, who fashioned an entire, unbeaten career (particularly the latter half of it) out of being nigh impossible to land on cleanly.

Another one would have been Joe Calzaghe, whose defence was nowhere near as good, but who relied increasingly on speed, especially after his hands went to shit and he had to stop sparring because he kept breaking the bones in them.

[safe_timber_man]

I'm still shocked that this 'sport', where the object is to beat your opponent until they suffer brain damage such that they are rendered unconscious, continues to be part of the Olympics.

The counterargument is that the object of boxing is to avoid being hit, the majority of stoppages occur before serious damage is done and there are more dangerous sports than amateur boxing. I have a vested interest as a longtime follower and very brief participant but my argument is that while I could never justify it on moral grounds there are a lot worse things happening in sport and in the world.

The ur-example of this (regrettably, given that he’s a wife-beating prick outside the ring) probably being Floyd Mayweather, who fashioned an entire, unbeaten career (particularly the latter half of it) out of being nigh impossible to land on cleanly.

Another one would have been Joe Calzaghe, whose defence was nowhere near as good, but who relied increasingly on speed, especially after his hands went to shit and he had to stop sparring because he kept breaking the bones in them.

As a casual boxing fan, and think/thought Mayweather is the best of the best, is that true that he was a woman beater??

[Philip Marlow]

Alas, yes.

https://andscape.com/features/why-floyd ... ing-women/

Why does Mayweather remain such a compelling figure despite his repeated and documented instances of domestic abuse? Let us count the ways: There are no publicly available photos showing the evidence of his crimes; there’s no central organization to hold Mayweather and other abusive boxers to account; and there’s an understanding, however contentious, that some boxers are inherently violent, their rage uncontrollable. Furthermore, there’s a long-standing pattern of victims, especially black women, holding their tongues to protect the black men who hit them.

[Watchman]

A slightly mischievous aside; there is a mixed relay in the swimming, and the teams are allowed to mix, so on some legs it’s men swimming against women; is this considered fair

[RedSparrows]

A slightly mischievous aside; there is a mixed relay in the swimming, and the teams are allowed to mix, so on some legs it’s men swimming against women; is this considered fair

Presumably you can pick which leg is which athelete?

Or you can call anyone who beats you a cheat, that's seemingly where the Serious Thinkers are.

[soulboy]

As far as I am aware, only one man has won a medal in a women's event.

[RedSparrows]

PC GONE MAD FUMIN