:pray: 66.7 % :laughing: 33.3 %
By Oboogie
#57695
Abernathy wrote: Mon Nov 13, 2023 1:58 pm
Spoonman wrote: Mon Nov 13, 2023 1:23 pm He's also arguably been the least worst Tory PM since 2010, though that is on its own a very, very low bar to clear.
Okay, I'll argue. From least worst to worst, they are :

5. Sunak.
4. May.
3. Truss.
2, Cameron.
1. Johnson.
I suppose I more or less agree but I find them difficult to rank them as it's not a level playing field.

Is Cameron the worst because he's responsible for all the ensuing shit that's happened since his bolloxed referendum?

Is Truss the worst because she packed so much damage into so little time? If she'd had a year or two she would certainly be worse than any of the others.

Is Johnson the worst because everything he did was based on lies and self interest, fuck the country, fuck the Party?

Everything Sunak has done is also based on lies and self interest, fuck the country, fuck the Party. but he did inherit an impossible mess from Truss and Johnson, does that make him any better than Johnson?

May was objectively useless but she did inherit an impossible mess from Cameron and had Brexiters undermining her from day one, does that make her any better?
By mattomac
#57751
Cameron is the worst for me.

His austerity left the country in tatters and he offered up two divisive referendums the latter to a country that had been sliced apart, he then fucked off.

He is also one of the world leaders who did bugger all when Russia annexed the Crimea.
Dalem Lake, Abernathy liked this
User avatar
By Crabcakes
#57778
I’m going to argue they’re all absolutely terrible in their own ways, but the real killer has been the sequence.

Cameron: overconfident coward who gambled it all on an overly simplistic referendum and then ran away to let someone else clean up his mess, which led to…

May: absolutely incapable of the charisma needed to lead, and also prone to pursuing nasty and/or greedy policies. Fucked up an election so bad it meant she was in a precarious situation and at the mercy of maniacs and imbeciles, which led to…

Johnson: the worst possible person in the worst possible place at the worst possible time. A lying, cheating egomaniac sociopath who killed tens of thousands through not being a big enough boy to concentrate for 5 minutes, and being scared that telling people bad things might make them less likely to think favourably of him. So utterly awful his house of bullshit inevitably exploded, leading to…

Truss: completely under the sway of the grasping disaster capitalists and shills at 55 Tufton St, Liz was and is absolutely unfit for any public office because she is far, far too stupid. So stupid, she does not even have the necessary intelligence to realise how stupid she is. Will also sell out her mates, and is crushingly vain. So bad at the job she had to go before she literally bankrupted the country, leading to…

Sunak: the reject’s reject, in the job because there’s literally no one left. A coward, hopelessly out of touch, more right wing than he likes to make out, and openly corrupt in terms of tax dodges and wheezes. The very wettest of blankets, with no idea how to fix anything and no charisma to pull it off even if he did, all he can do is limp along until the inevitable - and is so desperate he had to enlist the services of a previous member of this list.


In a different order, and with different circumstances, some of them would have been basically harmless and some would have got nowhere near No. 10. The hope is, the silver lining to enduring all this is a post-election implosion and extinction.
Youngian, Abernathy, Andy McDandy and 4 others liked this
User avatar
By Andy McDandy
#57787
The thing I love about Truss is that she's an absolute free market enthusiast - all invisible hand and let the dice fall where they may, free enterprise the answer to everything. And the free markets took one look at her and went "piss off, you're a mentler".

So she decided it was the free markets at fault. Not her free markets. They go to another stock exchange.
By Youngian
#57797
Andy McDandy wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2023 11:25 am The thing I love about Truss is that she's an absolute free market enthusiast - all invisible hand and let the dice fall where they may, free enterprise the answer to everything. And the free markets took one look at her and went "piss off, you're a mentler".

So she decided it was the free markets at fault. Not her free markets. They go to another stock exchange.
There is a time and place for quick fix tax cut stimulus according to J M Keynes. Liz missed that heavyweight endorsement that could have bolstered her credibility.
User avatar
By Spoonman
#57811
On reflection, I'd say it was more likely that May was the least worst of the lot, though I'd still put Cameron ahead of Truss as his entire PM'ship wasn't a complete skip fire that hers was & the jury is still out on where to place Sunak.

But on one note...
Crabcakes wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2023 10:47 am ...Cameron: overconfident coward who gambled it all on an overly simplistic referendum and then ran away to let someone else clean up his mess, <snip>
...Cameron's position as PM at that point was completely untenable. In most democratic countries where either the president or prime minister pushes for a referendum that holds huge political significance, where they give outright backing to it passing... and they lose, they nearly always resign as a consequence. The only surprise for me was that Cameron hung around for as long as he did. His authority as PM was in tatters and he couldn't go on. The fruitcakes and loonies in his party that defeated him in this battle were more than rightly told to go and own their shit, and the fact that none of them had the initial guts to do so and instead leave the collateral to be cleared up at the start by a remain supporter (May) whom were only too happy to keep sabotaging her spoke volumes.

It was a big political gamble that Cameron made that massively backfired and he paid the price for it. However other than this and helping support the legalisation of gay marriage in England, there isn't for me much to otherwise defend Cameron on.
Last edited by Spoonman on Tue Nov 14, 2023 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
By Youngian
#57819
mattomac wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2023 2:08 pm You wonder if he is the Foreign minister in everything but name.

Cameron won't do any heavy lifting as he is another who seems quite lazy
Not aware of Cameron carrying out any international relations type roles since leaving office. He probably knows a lot of international investors out of pocket.

Andrew Marr is blurring the lines somewhat between an ex leader some will recognise and a man the world picks up the phone to. Cameron isn’t Mario Draghi or even Gordon Brown
Cameron will make Britain look just a bit bigger on the world stage – he is a very well-connected and senior figure with excellent political and business relationships in the United States, China and across the Middle East.

They will hear him in Washington and New York. On the crisis in Gaza, he is the kind of figure even Netanyahu may talk to https://www.lbc.co.uk/opinion/views/and ... g-cameron/
By mattomac
#57823
Yeah

Is this the same David Cameron?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wor ... d-cameron/

Thankfully there have been a fair few journalists who have actually put in a "but..." however some are so desperate the Tories keep office they can barely hide their excitement at any slight change.

Remember we are less than 2 months since Sunak trashed green pledges, wanted blanket bans on 20mph zones and was blabbering on about meat taxes, and we are supposed to now believe thats all changed again and that's just fine and that this is the "Real Rishi".
Spoonman liked this
User avatar
By Tubby Isaacs
#57828
mattomac wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2023 2:08 pm You wonder if he is the Foreign minister in everything but name.

Cameron won't do any heavy lifting as he is another who seems quite lazy
I thought that Cameron was a lazy bastard because he seemed to be in permanent "essay crisis" mode. But by all accounts he did actually do the reading properly, so I guess it was more of a choice that he'd be able to pull it off late in the day. How did that go?
User avatar
By Crabcakes
#57832
Fair point that he essentially had to resign. However I’d still argue he did so in a fairly dreadful way, wandering off from his lectern humming to himself having shat the bed, bedroom and to be honest most of the upper floor.

And had he not been such a coward in the first place and dealt with Farage and the cranks in his own party he’d not have needed a referendum, and if he’d been less arrogant he might have made a better effort to win it regardless (lukewarm contributions of Jez notwithstanding).

Ultimately, all roads lead back to a man who made a decision about the future of the U.K. with all the gravity and consideration of someone choosing whether to have still or sparkling mineral water before a meal, and then when he spilled the bottle he just stood up and left without paying.
long long title how many chars? lets see 123 ok more? yes 60

We have created lots of YouTube videos just so you can achieve [...]

Another post test yes yes yes or no, maybe ni? :-/

The best flat phpBB theme around. Period. Fine craftmanship and [...]

Do you need a super MOD? Well here it is. chew on this

All you need is right here. Content tag, SEO, listing, Pizza and spaghetti [...]

Lasagna on me this time ok? I got plenty of cash

this should be fantastic. but what about links,images, bbcodes etc etc? [...]