[Tubby Isaacs]

See also Obama with tariffs on tyres. He didn't do that again.

Best case scenario is that they don't mean a word of this stuff. Or that it's just cynical- attack the Government every time they don't do protectionism.

McDonnell has piped up that this is really his and Jez's idea. That was the bit I was worried about.

Some positive stuff about involving unions more and fixing stuff like musicians touring. Can't they concentrate on this?

[Tubby Isaacs]

I dunno, maybe Labour genuinely is fucked if it doesn't say this stuff. Biden's promised it too, and it may have helped swing Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin to him whereas the "neoliberal" Hilary Clinton lost them. Perhaps this has to be part of the coalition nowadays. But I'd prefer something more economically rational. Arguably the Democrats lost in 2000 because Al Gore wouldn't support tariffs that Bush did.

Having said that, I'm hypocritically pleased that steel got some protection from Truss, contrary to the advice of her independent advisors who were appointed to take the decisions away from short term politics. Protectionism for Neath Port Talbot, Ed Davey trade policy for everywhere else!

Talking of Ed Davey he talked down rejoining the EU a while ago. I wonder if he'll revisit this. Going to be a big Remainer sized hole.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Yep. Or else it's all talk.

[Youngian]

Is challenging patriotic protectionism wokeness? Andrew Neil will sort it out for us.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Ha ha.

If you see him, ask him why it's OK for David Frost and Johnson to say the deal they signed is shit, but it's bad for Remainers to say exactly the same thing.

[Tubby Isaacs]

[Tubby Isaacs]

In defence of Keir, by way of balance. Jez didn't do better than-27 in 2019. Best in 2018 was -6, in the very first poll.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadershi ... emy_Corbyn

[Youngian]

Yep. Or else it's all talk.

Oppositions don’t usually announce good ideas with legs at this point in the electoral cycle. It’ll be a big hit with vox-pop Britain.

[NevTheSweeper]

Stupid protectionist nonsense. if the UK had a healthy manufacturing sector, that would be all well and good, but our industry died decades ago, and what is left is own by foreign companies and governments. If foreigners are banned from competiting for UK work, then they could easily retaliate by banning what is left of UK compnies bidding in their countries. Labour needs to rethink its childish strategy.

[Youngian]

The UK still has a smaller less labour intensive successful manufacturing sector which is intertwined with services (value add as corporate jargon would call it). Perhaps Labour can think of some ideas to remove export barriers and bureaucracy to their largest market.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Some Corbynite bemusement. Is this flag waving bollocks or cribbing Jez? At least me and the neoliberal scum are consistent.

Though I did see one Corbynite say, yes, this was sort of Jez stuff but bad because Jez would have made sure the wages were high and integrated it with the Green New Deal. Obviously trifles like this are easy for a details man like Jez, with the executive experience of having been on a housing committee once.

[Tubby Isaacs]

One of the odd things about this stuff, as David Henig has noted, is the assumption that this protectionist renaissance recreates manufacturing jobs where they were lost before, which would seem unlikely.

What if we go to all this trouble and jobs get "reshored" to the Thames Valley not Tees Valley?

[Andy McDandy]

Take a note from the Biden book. Get elected, then do useful things that would be torn apart by the other side in an election campaign, but now you're in power so fuck 'em and do what's right.

[Tubby Isaacs]

In fairness to Labour, Reeves has called for a vet deal with the EU as well. I wish that had been the focus today. Can Sir Keir now go with that?

"Prime Minister says it's time for solutions in NI. I quite agree etc"

Actually, is this the point of this stuff? See we're patriots but we're outward looking internationalists.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I am of course still backing Keir.

This is what we're up against. The General Secretary of the UCU taking pops at Rachel Reeves for not having read Das Kapital. It's got 2,000 pages in it. I'd be surprised if a lot of people in "Communist Book Clubs" didn't skip it and just read the Communist Manifesto and books about Marx instead.

But good "Rachel Reeves is a neoliberal" energy from this. BTL duly takes the bait.

And anyway, have you Marx is an obvious trap for a Labour Shadow Chancellor. How well did McDonnell's "here's a bit of Mao for you" go? Even if it was actually a good joke about Osborne.

[RedSparrows]

Frankly, I've got better things to do than read Das Kapital. I'm not sure me saying that is 'performatively boasting about being poorly read'. IIt also =/= 'reading Marx'.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I get the impression people studying economics have got better things to do than read it.

[Youngian]

A Labour member from another site with a somewhat cynical but on the mark view. Evidence from the Brexit debate shows Rachel Reeves will get away with talking economic patriot codswallop in TV studios.

If it gets Rachel some good photo-ops keep on blurting it out. But I mean this is corner-shop economics- the sort that never really had much credence since we were wiped out by lease-lend in the 1940s. We underinvested away the rest of our heavy industry by petty-minded protectionism and buy local policies.

The wonderful thing about the financial services that we relied upon is they can be moved so easily. They were good earners but require a global clientele. They were so successful that they required free-movement of capital and labour. But you have noticed that truth is also a dated concept,

Rachel is far better as an economist than a rabble rouser- but if this sort of Codswallop goes down in the TV studio she shouldn't be constrained by facts.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Lots on our side wouldn't have worn a "patriotic Labour Brexit", so will they wear this?

If Ed Davey is watching this, he might sniff an opportunity. They took a chunk out in 2019, they can do it again.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Oh man. Rachel Reeves is now being accused of "performatively boasting of being poorly read" for saying she hasn't read Das Kapital.