[Malcolm Armsteen]

Trump has been indicted on (I believe) 19 counts in Georgia, 41 counts on 18 indicted people in the Trump camp, including Giuliani, Eastman and Chesebro.

These include racketeering and conspiracy to commit forgery, issuing false documents and so on. Some details here:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... -explained

A grand jury in Georgia has issued an indictment accusing Donald Trump of efforts to overturn his 2020 election loss to Democrat Joe Biden.
Prosecutors brought 41 counts against Trump and his associates, including forgery and racketeering, which is used to target members of organized crime groups.
The defendants were indicted on charges of violating Georgia’s Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (Rico) Act. The act essentially allows prosecutors to link together different crimes committed by different people and bring criminal charges against a larger criminal enterprise. The law requires prosecutors to show the existence of a criminal enterprise that has committed at least two underlying crimes.
Prosecutors charged 18 people in addition to Trump, including Mark Meadows, Trump’s former White House chief of staff, and lawyers Rudy Giuliani and John Eastman.
Fulton county district attorney Fani Willis said that all 19 defendants would be tried at the same time and that she would be asking for a trial within the next six months.
Willis said she was “giving the defendants the opportunity to voluntarily surrender no later than Friday the 25th day of August at noon.” This is the normal procedure. Trump will (most likely) arrive, be processed, and will plead not guilty.
Asked about accusations that the charges are politically motivated, Willis said, “I make decisions in this office based on facts and the law”.
This is the fourth time that Trump has been indicted. But this case is different because Trump cannot interfere in the case, even if he is elected president in 2024, and cannot issue a pardon.
The Trump campaign has responded to the indictment, saying, “President Trump will continue to power through this unprecedented abuse of power”.
A news conference featuring district attorney Fani T Willis is expected to take place after the indictment is released.
The court briefly posted a document on its website earlier on Monday listing several felony charges against Trump, but quickly removed it without explanation. Willis’s office said at the time no charges had been filed and declined further comment.
Over the course of a two-year investigation, Willis has examined Trump’s alleged efforts to pressure state leaders to reverse his 11,000-vote loss to Democrat Joe Biden in the state and organise a slate of illegitimate electors to undermine the process of formalising Biden’s victory. She has also looked into an alleged attempt by Trump’s allies to manipulate voting equipment in rural Coffee county.
Trump has denied any wrongdoing and accuses Fulton county district attorney Fani Willis, an elected Democrat, of being politically motivated.
Trump, 77, has been criminally indicted three times so far this year, including once by US special counsel Jack Smith on charges of trying to overturn his election defeat. He has long dismissed the many investigations, including two impeachments, he has faced in his years in politics as a politically motivated “witch-hunt”.

[Bones McCoy]

Fugeddabahdit

You know when you think a situation is so batshit that nothing about it could ever surprise you, then it does?

Toddlers and guns.

[Bones McCoy]

I have a horrible feeling that he's going to walk away from all of these.

Today I learned that it takes one dissenting voice to produce a hung jury leading to a "must acquit" ruling.

The USA is too polarised to avoid one of the twelve being some MAGA mouth-breather who fancies himself as a latter-day Henry Fonda.

Trump has been indicted on (I believe) 19 counts in Georgia, 41 counts on 18 indicted people in the Trump camp, including Giuliani, Eastman and Chesebro.

These include racketeering and conspiracy to commit forgery, issuing false documents and so on. Some details here:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... -explained

A grand jury in Georgia has issued an indictment accusing Donald Trump of efforts to overturn his 2020 election loss to Democrat Joe Biden.
Prosecutors brought 41 counts against Trump and his associates, including forgery and racketeering, which is used to target members of organized crime groups.
The defendants were indicted on charges of violating Georgia’s Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (Rico) Act. The act essentially allows prosecutors to link together different crimes committed by different people and bring criminal charges against a larger criminal enterprise. The law requires prosecutors to show the existence of a criminal enterprise that has committed at least two underlying crimes.
Prosecutors charged 18 people in addition to Trump, including Mark Meadows, Trump’s former White House chief of staff, and lawyers Rudy Giuliani and John Eastman.
Fulton county district attorney Fani Willis said that all 19 defendants would be tried at the same time and that she would be asking for a trial within the next six months.
Willis said she was “giving the defendants the opportunity to voluntarily surrender no later than Friday the 25th day of August at noon.” This is the normal procedure. Trump will (most likely) arrive, be processed, and will plead not guilty.
Asked about accusations that the charges are politically motivated, Willis said, “I make decisions in this office based on facts and the law”.
This is the fourth time that Trump has been indicted. But this case is different because Trump cannot interfere in the case, even if he is elected president in 2024, and cannot issue a pardon.
The Trump campaign has responded to the indictment, saying, “President Trump will continue to power through this unprecedented abuse of power”.
A news conference featuring district attorney Fani T Willis is expected to take place after the indictment is released.
The court briefly posted a document on its website earlier on Monday listing several felony charges against Trump, but quickly removed it without explanation. Willis’s office said at the time no charges had been filed and declined further comment.
Over the course of a two-year investigation, Willis has examined Trump’s alleged efforts to pressure state leaders to reverse his 11,000-vote loss to Democrat Joe Biden in the state and organise a slate of illegitimate electors to undermine the process of formalising Biden’s victory. She has also looked into an alleged attempt by Trump’s allies to manipulate voting equipment in rural Coffee county.
Trump has denied any wrongdoing and accuses Fulton county district attorney Fani Willis, an elected Democrat, of being politically motivated.
Trump, 77, has been criminally indicted three times so far this year, including once by US special counsel Jack Smith on charges of trying to overturn his election defeat. He has long dismissed the many investigations, including two impeachments, he has faced in his years in politics as a politically motivated “witch-hunt”.

[Boiler]

Sadly, I have no doubt whatsoever he'll walk.

Welcome to the next POTUS...

[Bones McCoy]

Sadly, I have no doubt whatsoever he'll walk.

Welcome to the next POTUS...

Another failed state.

[Yug]

I saw a post on Facebook this morning that shows at least one American gets it. It said something like:

"If he walks away from this our friends and allies will never trust us again."

I can't find it now.

[Oboogie]

Trump (and by implication his legal team) doesn't believe he's going to be cleared.

We know this because his entire legal strategy is to try and delay the legal proceedings until after the election.

This election is a re-run of an election which Trump already lost.
2020 taught us that Trump's support base is not enough to beat Biden, to win the election, therefore, Trump needs the backing of Independents. Since the last election we've had the Capitol riot, the Mar-a-Largo papers, the election fraud tape and all these other indictments which have repelled moderate Republicans. Are the Independents who didn't back Trump last time really going to be persuaded that they made a mistake in 2020 and back him now he has indictments hanging over him? Where's the evidence that they are planning to do that?

If Trump believed he was going to walk, he would be pushing for the various trials ASAP as, if he went into the election having been acquitted of all charges, he would certainly win the election. Trump doesn't believe that and, for the first time in my life, I think he's right.

[The Weeping Angel]

Trump (and by implication his legal team) doesn't believe he's going to be cleared.

We know this because his entire legal strategy is to try and delay the legal proceedings until after the election.

This election is a re-run of an election which Trump already lost.
2020 taught us that Trump's support base is not enough to beat Biden, to win the election, therefore, Trump needs the backing of Independents. Since the last election we've had the Capitol riot, the Mar-a-Largo papers, the election fraud tape and all these other indictments which have repelled moderate Republicans. Are the Independents who didn't back Trump last time really going to be persuaded that they made a mistake in 2020 and back him now he has indictments hanging over him? Where's the evidence that they are planning to do that?

If Trump believed he was going to walk, he would be pushing for the various trials ASAP as, if he went into the election having been acquitted of all charges, he would certainly win the election. Trump doesn't believe that and, for the first time in my life, I think he's right.

Exactly, the idea that this will help Trump or that Trump will walk free is based essentially on vibes.

[Boiler]

Exactly, the idea that this will help Trump or that Trump will walk free is based essentially on vibes.

Unfortunately, 'vibes' may be more accurate... I desperately hope I'm wrong of course, but he genuinely does seem to be untouchable, no matter how much we hope to see him in a suit that matches his complexion.

[Abernathy]

The orange crook did say, just before the Georgia indictment was called, that he just needed one more indictment and he'd be nailed on as presiden.t. He won't be, of course. He might be a dead cert as the nominee of a cowed and supine Republican Party,, but I think it would, and certainly should, be impossible for him to win the election, against Biden or whoever, with possible criminal convictions attached to him, or even from gaol.

[satnav]

Trump triumphed in 2016 because he portrayed himself as the anti-establishment candidate. He is probably hoping to do the same again this time round because it is easier to rail against the criminal justice system rather trying to defend his record as president.

I'm not sure how that will play out when you get to the formal TV debates when presumably both candidates are expected to answer the same questions. Whilst some voters may not be bothered about some of the charges he faces the ones around trying to get the election result overturned are potentially very damaging especially if people start asking him if he will accept the result this time around.

[Boiler]

Would those questions be asked by anyone though, especially as Trump and his entourage would both cry "foul" and claim that once again, the election was stolen?

[Tubby Isaacs]

Being closely tied to Trump was a negative in 2022- Republicans in competitive districts who ran as relatively bipartisan local champions did better than ones who banged on about rigged elections. I can't see this being less true in 2024.

[The Weeping Angel]

Being closely tied to Trump was a negative in 2022- Republicans in competitive districts who ran as relatively bipartisan local champions did better than ones who banged on about rigged elections. I can't see this being less true in 2024.

That is indeed a good point, however

[Boiler]

Meanwhile:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-66529579

A Texas woman has been charged with threatening to kill a judge who is overseeing a criminal case against former US President Donald Trump.

Abigail Jo Shry, 43, allegedly phoned the court in Washington DC on 5 August and used a racial slur in her message for US District Judge Tanya Chutkan.

Ms Shry also allegedly threatened to kill a Democratic member of Congress.

She admitted making the call after investigators traced her phone number, according to a court document.

In the call, Ms Shry allegedly told the judge, who is overseeing an election conspiracy case against Mr Trump: "You are in our sights, we want to kill you."

Prosecutors say Ms Shry added: "If Trump doesn't get elected in 2024, we are coming to kill you."

The caller also threatened all Democrats in Washington DC and the LGBT community, according to the court filing.

Normal country, nothing to see here.

[Crabcakes]

Unfortunately, 'vibes' may be more accurate... I desperately hope I'm wrong of course, but he genuinely does seem to be untouchable, no matter how much we hope to see him in a suit that matches his complexion.

I get what you mean, but worth bearing in mind this isn’t true. He has been bankrupt multiple times, has lost numerous lawsuits or settled because he knows he will lose them. He got away with things while in office, or more minor issues that just didn’t stick or could be derailed by GOP majorities, but he is not in office now, is unlikely to regain office, and all of the charges in the federal and state cases are very strong and significantly unlike what he has faced before. He also is in jeopardy from co-defendants flipping on him (because they know full well he’d flip on them), and that will only increase as it becomes more apparent he will not be able to save them through presidential pardon.

There is no reason to assume that he has some sort of innate, special immunity. Quite the opposite, if anything - his arrogance and belief he cannot be stopped is likely to hasten his eventual conviction because the opposite is true. He has made himself eminently convictable through sloppiness, carelessness and hubris.

Boris was untouchable…until he wasn’t. Now he’s a miserable, bitter sideline joke, desperately hoping for a comeback that won’t happen and the architect of his own demise, his party’s and likely his party’s project in Brexit eventually.

[Boiler]

Hope you're right, Crabs. I couldn't take four more years of Trump - as it stands, it's his nutter supporters that trouble me as much now.

[Abernathy]

"A very worthwhile and insightful piece here in today’s New European about Trump’s apparent heavy reliance on a first amendment defence, and why it will fail, from the indomitable Bonnie Greer:

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/can-am ... ee-speech/

Let’s not forget, either, that Georgia’s attorney general may charge Trump under Rico, the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, for his phone call soliciting more votes in Georgia (which Biden had won) during the election. Too bad for Trumpy: somebody taped the call.

To understand what the first amendment protects and what it does not, think about it this way:

You are free to write “Vote For Trump”. All over the walls. But you are not free to spray-paint it on somebody’s car.

If the spray can wins, the Republic itself will be under threat.

[Andy McDandy]

Yup, "Freeze Peach" isn't a get out of jail card - it simply says that you can't be prosecuted for voicing an opinion. Other laws such as slander, libel, contempt of court and incitement are still in effect. Basically, chat shit and get banged.

[The Weeping Angel]

Unfortunately, 'vibes' may be more accurate... I desperately hope I'm wrong of course, but he genuinely does seem to be untouchable, no matter how much we hope to see him in a suit that matches his complexion.

I get what you mean, but worth bearing in mind this isn’t true. He has been bankrupt multiple times, has lost numerous lawsuits or settled because he knows he will lose them. He got away with things while in office, or more minor issues that just didn’t stick or could be derailed by GOP majorities, but he is not in office now, is unlikely to regain office, and all of the charges in the federal and state cases are very strong and significantly unlike what he has faced before. He also is in jeopardy from co-defendants flipping on him (because they know full well he’d flip on them), and that will only increase as it becomes more apparent he will not be able to save them through presidential pardon.

There is no reason to assume that he has some sort of innate, special immunity. Quite the opposite, if anything - his arrogance and belief he cannot be stopped is likely to hasten his eventual conviction because the opposite is true. He has made himself eminently convictable through sloppiness, carelessness and hubris.

Boris was untouchable…until he wasn’t. Now he’s a miserable, bitter sideline joke, desperately hoping for a comeback that won’t happen and the architect of his own demise, his party’s and likely his party’s project in Brexit eventually.

Exactly also he is only the third post war President to get voted out after one term.