[Malcolm Armsteen]

I think it would be much better if everyone just strutted around nude.

Not in my case...

[safe_timber_man]

Would save a bloody fortune. Have you seen the price of a pack of boxers these days?

[Malcolm Armsteen]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01 ... UTF8&psc=1

£31 for 10...

[safe_timber_man]

Fair point well made. I just bought a pack of 2 for the same price but mine has a famous mans name printed on them. What a mug.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Unacceptable cop out, or sensible way forward on gender?

Some bollocks about the SNP from Anneliese Dodds, but also an improvement on ID, that a single registrar (doctor) can sign it off. What do you think?

Self-id works perfectly well in other places, but there are arguments against it too. Self-id of race, for instance, isn't seen as a right, and that's arguably less transformative than self-id on gender. I think in the current climate this proposal, with implied support for the equality act, is a reasonable policy. Though I'm put off by Rosie Duffield seeming to be happy with it.

[The Weeping Angel]

Judging from twitter there are two schools of thought

1. Labour want to kill all trans people

2. Labour have sold out to the trans lobby.

[Youngian]

Judging from twitter there are two schools of thought

1. Labour want to kill all trans people

2. Labour have sold out to the trans lobby.

Be nice for Labour to tell both sides it has about as much political bandwidth for this ding dong as they have for Farage’s bank account.

[Tubby Isaacs]

That's kind of inevitable. Starmer did bullshit a bit about the Scottish Act- Isla Bryson isn't directly relevant to that. But it's kind of counter intuitive that a Bryson pre-getting nicked for rape can self-id. I think there has to be better trans healthcare as well for the Starmer policy to work.

Scottish public opinion after Sunak blocked it seemed to be very hostile to it.

[The Weeping Angel]

That's kind of inevitable. Starmer did bullshit a bit about the Scottish Act- Isla Bryson isn't directly relevant to that. But it's kind of counter intuitive that a Bryson pre-getting nicked for rape can self-id. I think there has to be better trans healthcare as well for the Starmer policy to work.

Scottish public opinion after Sunak blocked it seemed to be very hostile to it.

Bryson's relevant because we have a clear example of a male predator trying to exploit self-ID for their own ends.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Yes, I think that's right. But Starmer and Dodds have implicitly linked this with the Scottish gender bill, which can't have had any effect because it hadn't come in.

[mattomac]

I’m kind of ok with it, surprised Duffield is mind.

I don’t think she will be an MP that Starmer has to worry about too much mind. Some people bringing up Theresa May kind of ignoring she had gone on a journey on gay rights, same with Biden.

[The Weeping Angel]

[Killer Whale]

As Mrs Whale, a somewhat old-school feminist, sometimes comments, for people who assure us that they are women, some of them don't half seem to have a well-developed male sense of entitlement.
I couldn't possibly comment. The 'debate' is too toxic, and the intersectionality too 5 dimensional.

[Samanfur]

As someone who gets periodically misgendered (maybe a couple of times a month), I have very little time for the fact that the most vocal TERFs:

i. Carry on at length about being feminists, and that a woman should be able do with her body whatever she damn well pleases.

ii. Happen to think that women's appearance should all meet an identikit, basically male gaze standard of femininity, or else they're obviously men in disguise.

And they see no conflict in holding these two opinions at the same time.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Yeah those people are as bad as anyone.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

Why is this debate defined only by bad actors?

[Andy McDandy]

Because anyone with half a brain understands that most, if not all, "problem" scenarios involving trans people can be resolved in moments with a little goodwill and consideration on all sides.

Not so much about whether or not you have a dick, as about not being one.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

Because anyone with half a brain understands that most, if not all, "problem" scenarios involving trans people can be resolved in moments with a little goodwill and consideration on all sides.

This. So much. And so many other issues as well.

[Crabcakes]

Absolutely. Plus I recently realised the ‘do you want your daughter/wife to share a toilet with a man in a dress who’s just pretending?’ argument is basically the gender equivalent of a US (or U.K., I suppose) gun advocate demanding you answer the question of whether you would shoot an armed intruder if you had a gun to save a child/spouse. An absurd ‘what if?’ extreme worst case scenario that is vanishingly rare, used to justify behaviour and laws that result in incident after incident in the real world where people are actually harmed.

[Philip Marlow]

Unacceptable cop out, or sensible way forward on gender?

Some bollocks about the SNP from Anneliese Dodds, but also an improvement on ID, that a single registrar (doctor) can sign it off. What do you think?

See, the SNP bit irritated me rather, not just because Dodds is lying but because of the specific manner in which she's lying. 'Cavalier', as if the GRC reforms were scrawled across a beer mat nigh on closing time rather than proposed, debated and subject to judicial review (twice). And that's before we get to the idea that Sturgeon pushed it primarily as a way of 'picking a fight with Westminster', which is just a recycled right wing talking point.

All of this puts Anas Sarwar in a bit of a bind does it not? I don't know how much consideration London HQ is giving to the branch office North of the border these days, but Scottish Labour did support self-ID (with fewer rebels come the vote than the SNP had if memory serves) and while I've seen both Richard Leonard and Monica Lennon state that nothing has changed in that regard, neither of them is leading the party. Be interesting to see if Sarwar is willing to hold the line or not.