:sunglasses: 37.8 % :pray: 2.7 % :laughing: 32.4 % 🧥 8.1 % :cry: 8.1 % :🤗 2.7 % :poo: 8.1 %
By Bones McCoy
#44566
Youngian wrote: Thu May 18, 2023 7:18 am If all the claims made about producing meat through precision fermentation* instead of cattle are true, then countries will have all the land they need for other demands. Speaking as a meat eater who’s sceptical about most green technologies fully delivering their claims, this is the most exciting innovation I’ve ever come across to halt global warming. And more besides when you look at what huge parts of the countryside could look like without cattle farming.

* Producing protein from microorganisms. If you’ve had insulin, eaten cheese or drunk beer you’ll get the idea.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... on-farming
Very interesting if price and scalability hit the right boundaries.
I wonder about the by-products and water requirements of fermentation - they're potential showstoppers too.

Pardon my scepticism, I've had "No such thing as a free lunch" drummed into me for a lifetime.
By Youngian
#44612
Pardon my scepticism, I've had "No such thing as a free lunch" drummed into me for a lifetime.
Monbiot would put himself in that category which is why it caught my eye. He made himself unpopular with greens calling out figures that don’t add up like organic farming, EVs and phasing out nuclear.
And also the technology is already established to produce medical products like insulin, I’m liking what I’m hearing so far.

Imagine what converting to this technology means to sheep farmer taking home under £10K per year even with subsidies and out in shitty weather. And I’d guess like cheesemaking this has lower capital costs than cow herds.
User avatar
By Tubby Isaacs
#44677
I was wondering about the "votes for EU citizens" thing. I can't say for sure that they know what they're doing, but what's the betting that it's resurrected at a later date as eg"all foreign citizens who've lived here at least 5 years". Are the Tories going to go to war on Americans, Israelis etc? Might be quite a lot of existing voters with in-laws and friends who'd see that as positive.
By Bones McCoy
#44693
Youngian wrote: Thu May 18, 2023 5:00 pm
Pardon my scepticism, I've had "No such thing as a free lunch" drummed into me for a lifetime.
Monbiot would put himself in that category which is why it caught my eye. He made himself unpopular with greens calling out figures that don’t add up like organic farming, EVs and phasing out nuclear.
And also the technology is already established to produce medical products like insulin, I’m liking what I’m hearing so far.

Imagine what converting to this technology means to sheep farmer taking home under £10K per year even with subsidies and out in shitty weather. And I’d guess like cheesemaking this has lower capital costs than cow herds.
Major technology shifts like this rarely benefit the old-skool suppliers.
It's more likely that the sheep farmer is left out in the cold, while some pharma - chemical behemoth supplies the lab grown lamb.

I'm sounding like a real killjoy, aren't I.
Shades of Raymond Baxter reassuring us kids that computers would let us work 4 hour days.
By Youngian
#44695
States subsidies for British sheep and cows are a good thing for a number of reasons like food security and land management but without them most of those animals wouldn’t exist. They will never compete on a free market with the economy of scale of New Zealand or Argentina.
But that’s not true of beer brewing or cheese making so I don’t see why fermentation would be at the mercy of corporate dominance anymore than sausages are now (butchers sausages aren’t Wall’s bangers).
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By Tubby Isaacs
#44718
I'm not very convinced by this.
The Myth of Conservative England
The political battleground in England is changing rapidly and politicians and commentators risk being left behind

ADAM BIENKOV
Sure, some polling makes the public sound like lefties.
In fact if you look at polling about public spending, taxation, nationalisation, Brexit and even electoral reform, the UK public is significantly to the ‘left’ of both the current Government and Keir Starmer.
"Of course we want to pay more tax", say Great British Public. Yeah. They mean "of course somebody should pay it".

Anyway there's other polling that goes against this. Can't find it but lots of people intending to vote Labour think their tax is high and blame the Tories for it. I can't recall an ecstatic public cheering the rises in National Insurance under Bozo, even though nearly everyone agreed that health and social care were in a bad way.

Nobody ever puts prices in with nationalisation polling. Starmer's doing train services and building up energy supply to sell to the national grid, so he's not hopeless adrift on the right. But what's the cost of buying back the whole of electricity, water, gas supply? I don't know, but I reckon it wouldn't be difficult to set a poll question along the lines of "instead of spending £xbn now on buying back (whatever), we should spend it on (whatever) while regulating (whatever) more strictly", and get a very positive response.

Electoral reform is a fair point, but again there are barriers to that. Not least the big chunk of people who will "send a message".
The argument then tends to move onto suggestions that while there may be public support for some individual ‘left-wing’ policies, voters are not willing to vote for lots of those policies at the same time.

This is a difficult thesis to test. Are we really expected to believe that Labour’s defeats in the last two general elections was due to the party offering voters too much of what they said they wanted? Or was there perhaps some more obvious reasons for the public twice rejecting a party led by Jeremy Corbyn?
The answer to that is Corbyn was so unpopular that Bozo didn't even have to run on the economy at all. But it's certainly been a very good political strategy for other Tory leaders. (Thatcher, Major, Cameron), so I think there's probably some merit in it. Especially when you're scaring everybody with enormous spending figures (£500bn investment). And also telling them they can cut their working hours by 20%, No wonder people think that's too good to be true.
We are currently living through what has the potential to be the most politically tumultuous period of our lifetimes. Whether it’s the growing impact of climate change, declining living standards, multiple generations locked out of the housing market, post-Brexit economic stagnation, the impact of artificial intelligence on jobs, or the coming global migrant crisis, the political landscape in just five years time is likely to be incredibly different to the political landscape in 2019.
Indeed. But Starmer's promised to spend a lot addressing climate change. I'm not really sure what he's supposed to do about AI. The public don't seem very leftwing on the migrant crisis, as Bienkov acknowledges elsewhere. There was an announcement on housebuilding this week, which wasn't small c conservative.

Everything else costs money. Funnily enough, Labour isn't at this stage running on taxing people and spending a lot more. Or indeed on borrowing a lot more, though one assumes that the climate spending would be borrowing. If people are spending a lot on rent or mortgages, where does that leave their feelings on paying more tax?
There was nothing innately Conservative about England when it rejected Labour in 2019, any more than there was something inherently socialist about England when it handed a landslide majority to Clement Attlee’s Government back in 1945.
If the only counter example you have is straight after the biggest war there's ever been, and nearly 80 years ago, I think we're struggling. We don't have an enormous 1945 Defence budget that we can reduce and spend on something else. A "1945" approach now would be all new spending (and tax, for most of the current spending, anyway). Good luck with that.
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By Watchman
#44863
As I remember it; nobody (by nobody I mean the general public) wanted Savile prosecuted as it didn’t all come out until after he was dead.
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By Andy McDandy
#44865
Once again for the thick people at the back.

The CPS cannot initiate proceedings against someone. Unless a case is brought to them, typically by the police, they can't do anything based on rumours and hearsay alone. They cannot investigate allegations or have a word with the cops to get something started.

Savile had plenty of rumours flying about him, to a degree he encouraged and revelled in them. Sadly, that's not enough. It's also clear that he had friends in high places, and a certain level of protection, legally, politically, and within the media.

It's fucked up, but there we are. And as yet, "bet he's a nonce" isn't on the statute book.
By Youngian
#44878
The CPS cannot initiate proceedings against someone. Unless a case is brought to them, typically by the police, they can't do anything based on rumours and hearsay alone. They cannot investigate allegations or have a word with the cops to get something started.

Legal experts like Mr Proudfoot believe Starmer was like the DA in US cop shows leading police investigations to take punks off the streets.
By MisterMuncher
#44899
I think I've said before had "Labour Lord*" Starmer engaged in a pursuit of conviction of a high profile Tory donor and national treasure against the advice of his subordinates we'd still be hearing the backlash about it today.
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By Crabcakes
#44903
Oboogie wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 9:05 pm Is it time to watch Ian Hislop's explanation of why you can't arrest people because of gossip, even if that gossip subsequently turns out to be accurate?

Just as an aside, it’s quite the clip to have a discussion about someone falling from grace that includes someone who went on to skirt very close to full-blown antisemitism, and someone who decided trans people shouldn’t have the right to exist.
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By Killer Whale
#44908
Youngian wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 8:23 pm
The CPS cannot initiate proceedings against someone. Unless a case is brought to them, typically by the police, they can't do anything based on rumours and hearsay alone. They cannot investigate allegations or have a word with the cops to get something started.

Legal experts like Mr Proudfoot believe Starmer was like the DA in US cop shows leading police investigations to take punks off the streets.
A surprising number of conspiracy theories seem, to me at least, to stem from people believing that life is indeed just like the movies.
By Bones McCoy
#44909
Youngian wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 4:31 pm Chuck in a far right internet conspiracy
Working people made Savile rich.
Tuned into him on the radio and telly.
Lined the streets to cheer him at fun runs.
Praised his work for Cheridee.

Where, we could ask, was our fair and fearless press?
* Backing off for fear of a libel case? - Could be.
* Backing off for fear of his closeness to Thatcher? - See also Hillsborough.
By RedSparrows
#44913
Crabcakes wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 9:52 am
Oboogie wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 9:05 pm Is it time to watch Ian Hislop's explanation of why you can't arrest people because of gossip, even if that gossip subsequently turns out to be accurate?

Just as an aside, it’s quite the clip to have a discussion about someone falling from grace that includes someone who went on to skirt very close to full-blown antisemitism, and someone who decided trans people shouldn’t have the right to exist.
Hah, yes, was thinking the same. 'That's a panel from another time...'
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