[Andy McDandy]

Wait until you win. Stinking majority, do it. Coalition, say it was the price paid. Either way you've fucked more Tories than an enthusiastic researcher.

[Youngian]

The threat of the hard right parties holding the balance of power isn’t a huge disaster in practice as they haven’t fared well. Farage’s mate Winston Peters was wiped out after climbing in bed with lefty woke queen Jacinda Ardern (who reaped the credit with an increased majority).
In a similar UK scenario, appoint Farage minister of fish with an office in Grimsby away from the metropolitan wokes he despises. Throw in June from Lowestoft as his PPS.

[Spoonman]

The threat of the hard right parties holding the balance of power isn’t a huge disaster in practice as they haven’t fared well. Farage’s mate Winston Peters was wiped out after climbing in bed with lefty woke queen Jacinda Ardern (who reaped the credit with an increased majority).
In a similar UK scenario, appoint Farage minister of fish with an office in Grimsby away from the metropolitan wokes he despises. Throw in June from Lowestoft as his PPS.

It also depends on what form of PR you offer as well. In the Single Transferrable Vote for example, centrist parties tend to benefit more from mopping up transfers compared to the fringes. The 2022 NI Assembly vote is a good example of this. In terms of parties that received first preference votes...

Sinn Fein - 29.0%
DUP - 21.3%
Alliance - 13.5%
UUP - 11.2%
SDLP - 9.1%
TUV - 7.6%
Greens - 1.9%
Aontu - 1.5%
PBP - 1.1%
Others - 4.0%

...but in terms of actual seats won (number in brackets would be the proportional seats otherwise obtained from overall share of 1st preference votes, rounded to the nearest integer so it only equals 88 meaning it's two seats short)...

Sinn Fein - 27 (26)
DUP - 25 (19)
Alliance - 17 (12)
UUP - 9 (10)
SDLP - 8 (8)
TUV - 1 (7)
Green - 0 (2)
Aontu - 0 (1)
PBP - 1 (1)
Independents - 2

...there are some clear anomalies with the DUP, Alliance & TUV. In the case of Alliance they were able to pick up transfers from across a lot of other parties both big & small so ended up with five more seats than their nominal vote share would otherwise give them. OTOH while the TUV 1st pref vote share went up to 7.6% from 2.6% in the last election in 2017, its ability to receive transfers from others is, outside of elements of the DUP, utterly toxic to many voters and therefore ended up with only one seat - the same amount they won in 2017 - transfers from TUV 1st preference voters instead mostly went to the DUP, which explains them winning six more seats than their nominal share should have otherwise awarded them - ironically six that TUV should have nominally won themselves.

[Youngian]

STV seems more problematic in RoI but maybe down to the political culture, the rival main parties are bit too consensual as they find themselves in bed together often. That makes for weaker opposition. STV in Ireland also throws up a gaggle of time wasting independent ‘characters.’ Looking for money for new bridges running close to their farm.
And thankfully, populism is more left leaning in Ireland via SF and others. Left wing populism is mainly attending demos and promising to pay for things you don’t won’t really have the money for if you gained power.

[Crabcakes]

very hard to see how Starmer could back PR if he wants to win the election.

This is what I’m hoping - that, like not mentioning brexit, it’s a case of campaigning (small c) conservatively, governing much more progressively. Which I give Starmer the benefit of the doubt over as he’s savvy enough to know (a) this is a necessary evil and (b) that getting in power to be able to do some good is far more important than constantly trumpeting your right-on stances about what good you’ll do if you ever get in power, because with the system currently rigged the way it is doing so is likely to mean you won’t ever get that chance.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

I think that's the course he's following - get into power, make the desperately needed changes and then start on the really good long-term stuff. The trouble is that it (single market, PR) will probably have to wait for a second term, and look what happened to Brown after he masterfully negotiated a way out of a crisis.

[Spoonman]

STV seems more problematic in RoI but maybe down to the political culture, the rival main parties are bit too consensual as they find themselves in bed together often. That makes for weaker opposition. STV in Ireland also throws up a gaggle of time wasting independent ‘characters.’ Looking for money for new bridges running close to their farm.
And thankfully, populism is more left leaning in Ireland via SF and others. Left wing populism is mainly attending demos and promising to pay for things you don’t won’t really have the money for if you gained power.

It's definitely down to political culture, especially when you consider that the two main parties grew out of Civil War divisions rather than explicit economic & social platforms that are the case in most Western democracies (though Fine Gael do fit well into the EU EPP and be described as a European Christian Democrat party, whereas Fianna Fail just seemingly floats & lands to wherever it feels like it). Also worth remembering that FF & FG have only ever come together once to form a coalition government - the present.

There is an issue with a significant amount of independents that have increased in recent years especially with voters being increasingly frustrated with the two main parties, not helped by the provisions in the constitution regarding the numerical link between population & TDs (1 TD to represent 20k-30k people) in Dail Eireann that is significantly lower than the House of Commons in London. There could certainly be a reduction in the amount of TDs sitting without really affecting much business in the legislature but the amount of TDs arguably comes at a price of Ireland being quite a heavily centralised country in terms of administration, and that to change the TD-population link beyond what is stated in the constitution would require a referendum, with turkeys unlikely to vote for Christmas and all that.

However, there's no clamor for changing the electoral system in Ireland. Two attempts to replace it in referendums in 1959 & 1968 with a FPTP system failed both times (a close contest the first time, but well rejected the second). STV in the Republic, as well as NI excluding Westminster elections, are here to stay.

Concerning the House of Commons, IMO an MMP system similar to that used in Germany & New Zealand would be probably the best adaption of PR for electing MPs, in particular having a threshold similar to that for Germany for getting list MPs in either having to get say three constituency MPs elected or passing a 5% list vote share to get a proportional share of MPs to match their list vote share would keep most fringe parties out.

[Tubby Isaacs]

You'd need a referendum for PR and it's far from certain it would pass. If you do it early in the term, that's a lot of political capital in danger. And if it passes, doesn't that make your government sort of illegitimate? Do you have another election straight away?

The public have a nasty habit of using referendums for protest about everything else.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

I don't think we'll be having any more referenda.
The correct course would be to put it in the 2028/9 manifesto.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I can go with that.

[Spoonman]

I'd agree that a standalone referendum on the method of voting for MPs, based on experience in 2011 & 2016, would be doomed to fail.

One other alternative to this would be to do like the Kiwi's did - hold a referendum on the voting system in parallel to a GE vote asking wherever the system should be changed from FPTP, and if the answer's yes hold a second referendum later (no later than the expected full term of the elected government) to decide what to replace FPTP with, where the New Zealanders themselves chose an MMP based system.

However, the numbers in Britain that are actually enthusiastic about electoral reform are rather small, so I don't really expect much to be done in this for the foreseeable future.

[Youngian]

There was what was called a coupon election in 1918 where the candidates stated if they supported a coalition government or oppose it (Liberals and Tories both split).
When you have a referendum choice attached to the candidate you avoid the absurd dichotomy of a parliament having to implement bollocks they don’t believe in.

[davidjay]

Please, no more referenda ever.

[Youngian]

There’s a more sophisticated understanding in countries where referendums are a constitutional norm that they aren’t government by opinion poll but a way of galvanizing a national consensus. That won’t happen here. Thatcher quoted Attlee as they shared the same instincts about referendums; devices for demagogues and dictators. And they were right.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Owning your own home and not paying rent to private landlords for the whole of your life is Thatcherite.

[Abernathy]

He sort of has a point. Home ownership is great if that’s what you want to do, but it needn’t be the be all and end all. The UK’s housing model badly needs to become more like, for example, the German, French, Italian, or Scandinavian systems, where renting your home affordably is regarded as the norm.

Really not sure Starmer needed to make that somewhat contentious point.

[Andy McDandy]

You don't win many votes by telling electors they need to be more European.

[Watchman]

I must admit ignorance of European rental arrangements, but I’m assuming that, because it’s been in existence a lot longer, the landlords are properly regulated and are not all thieving gits, or legislation is in the landlord’s favour

[Malcolm Armsteen]

I don't know about the rest of Europe but in France tenants have very substantial rights, and considerable security.

[The Weeping Angel]

I heard Lisa Nandy talk about this on Question Time.