[Abernathy]

So, the proposition is that the use of attack ads will cause Labour a loss of support.

Well, we'll see.

I know that Tubs has just said that he thinks that the tactic will not succeed for Labour, even if it has succeeded multiple times for the Tories in the last four general elections and at least two (Brexit and AV) referendum campaigns, but I'm very skeptical that this is the case.

I think the point of this is that we ensure that Sunak is not let off the hook for the appalling record of the government he leads. Think John Major in 1992.

[Spoonman]

Worth digging out this quote again from ex-Australian Labor leader Mark Latham* from back in 2002...

I grieve for the rise of the new political correctness — the hypocritical demand of the conservative establishment in this country for civility in political debate. Imagine the hide of these people—the old money interests, the conservative think tanks, the Tory MPs and their fellow travellers in the commercial media. They have spent the last 20 years hopping into the unemployed, Aboriginal communities, newly arrived migrants and anyone else at the bottom of the social ladder, and now they want civility. ... For the establishment, civility is a way of preserving the social pecking order. It helps the ruling class to avoid public scrutiny and accountability. It tells working people to accept their lot in life, without challenging the power and privilege of the Tory elite

...to me throwing their shit right back at them shouldn't be the default mechanism, but a warning across the bow that if necessary we're prepared to get our hands dirty to slap them across your heads if needed.



* Once again, a shame where Laham now sits with his politics, but that 20+ year old quote is no less relevant in today's British political discourse.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Why take the risk? I don't see why you would when there are better options on crime that don't piss lots of people off. The Steve Reed tweet about prosecutors was tough and much more effective. Put up Sunak's face if you like, tie it to him, do all that.

[Tubby Isaacs]

This is a better political attack being entirely passed up, as far as I can see.

Perhaps they've some polling that attacking Sunak for being rich is bad, but there's a policy in there on taxing investments more. Hunt is already going there.

[The Weeping Angel]

Worth pointing out that the Tories did something similar back in 2010

[Tubby Isaacs]

Famously, early release from prison sentences was abolished was swiftly abolished by David Cameron. Jeez.

Anybody think this is feasible? Predictable mix of "you're the fraud" and "what about the real issues?" BTL. If this could be made to work, it would be handy and make a difference to some vulnerable people. Real enough issue for me, but could it?

[Tubby Isaacs]

This is why Starmer's going for this stuff. Voters are upset about it and want it improved.

I'm thinking of another Labour leader in a political campaign. Talked very little about taking more refugees, and a lot about recruiting more cops than the other side. Jeremy Corbyn,

[Abernathy]

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry ... 0b7B5Bh1eE

One source said: “Sunak never condemned Johnson when he accused Keir of letting Jimmy Savile off - so fuck him.

“What’s the difference between this and what he says every single week about ‘Starmer voted against tougher sentences’, or when he said Keir was ‘the friend of people traffickers’?
“We’re not prepared to be the mopes anymore, while the Tories say whatever they want.

[Bones McCoy]

Attack ads are indeed a two edged sword.

Done in isolation they will appear weak.

Done in response to a blizzard of bullshit form the likes of Johnson (remember him), Braverman and Anderson - not to mention the assembled columnists of the client press and payrolled followers like Hannan, needs care.
a) There are a lot more of them than you, and they have a lot more outlets.
b) Make sure you don't post something unsupportable.
c) The attack should act as a springboard; shaping future debate, allowing well briefed party members to expand the topic.

Issues like "Where did al the Hancock money go", "Why are costs so high, but services so poor (clue: Privatised dividends), "Who benefited form the Truss / Kwarteng budget", "How can we guarantee Truss / Kwarteng won't happen again".

They're easily dismissed as "Old news" by channels who'll drone on about "No money left".
It takes a shock to insert them into the debate, and a good campaigner to turn a 10 second sound bite into 3 minutes prime-time tory-demolition.

[Youngian]

I’m starting to understand the voodoo of this poster nonsense, it’s fire-hosing the fire-hosers. I was pleased for Corbyn that he had May on the run over the government’s policing record following the Manchester bombing. But the Tories never reciprocated in not doing personal and sticking to the ishoos like Jez. That’s why they keep winning.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

I’m starting to understand the voodoo of this poster nonsense, it’s fire-hosing the fire-hosers. I was pleased for Corbyn that he had May on the run over the government’s policing record following the Manchester bombing. But the Tories never reciprocated in not doing personal and sticking to the ishoos like Jez. That’s why they keep winning.

Yup

[The Weeping Angel]

[davidjay]

Meanwhile, the Home Secretary allies with the far right and there's barely a word of condemnation.

[Abernathy]

From Michael Dugher :

[davidjay]

From the day they took over the Tories have lied about a bi-partisan tradition that began in the thirties, using it recently on an almost daily basis, so spare me the tears.

[Tubby Isaacs]

That's classic Republican behaviour too. Usually the black president gets blamed for it, as if Newt Gingrich had never existed.

Lots of the Labour stuff at the moment seems to be on waste, which is understandable seeing nobody is queuing up to pay extra tax in the current climate. But before long you'll need tax rises too.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Interesting. This seems like a better approach to me.

[The Weeping Angel]

What the fuck?

[Tubby Isaacs]

Support for Zionism, no doubt.

[Youngian]

Interesting. This seems like a better approach to me.

The sewage one could be more Gilray and have it spurting from Sunak’s arse. Sewer politics.