[Bones McCoy]

You know that if he loses, he'll proclaim himself the "people's MP" or some bollocks and his fan club will just lap it up?

Needless to say Jez had the last laugh..

[Andy McDandy]

One of the many things that irritate me about the Trots is this fucking absolutely fanatical obsession they have with “democracy”. I’ve long thought that they’d have a vote to decide on the colour of shite.

No appreciation of nuance, no understanding that “democracy” may not always be the best way forward. If something is ostensibly “undemocratic” this does not necessarily mean that it is automatically the work of Satan.

I think there's a bit of blamestorming about it - if a decision turns out to be great, that's a victory for democracy; if it's rubbish, then at least it was reached fairly and it's everyone's fault. Which means it's not your fault.

The definition of democracy tends to vary though - usually depending on the likelihood of the Trots winning the vote right now. Otherwise it's time for a democracy of the committed, or that decision was reached a long time ago and we don't need to revisit it. In any case, one's definition of democracy can be readily altered to throw into doubt the legitimacy of whatever you like.

Important as it is, it's still basically a decision making process. Implementation of ideas and turning them into reality is a bit more complex. I suspect it's a bit like how police officers say that anyone being interrogated who questions the process and/or nature of questions, rather than the substance of the allegations, has something to hide.

[Crabcakes]

You know that if he loses, he'll proclaim himself the "people's MP" or some bollocks and his fan club will just lap it up?

I’m tempted to rejoin Twitter so that, in the event of his loss, I can immediately send him the following message:

Never mind Jeremy. Remember a wise man once said ‘the real fight starts now’. Oh sorry, did I say wise? I meant idiotic loser who didn’t seem to grasp making an effort after the event is worth precisely fuck-all.

Enjoy your long-overdue enforced retirement. I know I will.

[Youngian]

Like Tony Benn he can now spend more time on politics by leaving parliament.

Like we care

[Crabcakes]

Antisemitism - or rather, not taking it seriously and trying to make out it was a conspiracy - is what got him booted out. His subsequent behaviour is what means he can’t get back in.

I’m sure Diane could join these 2 rather obvious dots if she wished to, but sure - it’s a real mystery.

[Tubby Isaacs]

It’s very noticeable that we didn’t get anything like his current nonsense on Ukraine when he was looking for votes. So the “he got 40%” bollocks is absolutely irrelevant. I can’t think of another ex-leader that’s carried on like he has on something that’s an obvious gift to the Tories.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

[Abernathy]

Corbyn being performatively defiant on social media (of course, but he’s shouting into the void) but oddly, still stopping short of confirming that he will find it necessary to stand as an independent in Islington North against the official Labour candidate. As are, of course, all the usual suspects from the SCG, similarly hedging their bets with much “I stand with Jeremy” bullshit. Tragic.

[Abernathy]

Here’s an interesting take from John Baine, better known by his stage name of “Attila the Stockbroker”. I have some time for Mr. Baine, as he shares the leftist ideals and aspirations of many of the Trots,(and me, TBH) but is also keenly aware of the political strategy and tactics that are needed (ie as deployed by Starmer, S.) to win power and implement the real actions that result from those aspirations.

CORBYN'S EXCLUSION - LOOKING AT THINGS THE OTHER WAY
In the light of the decision to ban Corbyn, knowing how many people on here feel about Labour under Starmer and disagree with my approach, I am going to describe what I think would happen if all of us on the left, locally and nationally, turned our back on Labour as from this afternoon and refused to support them under any circumstances while Starmer was leader and the current administration in place.
Firstly, locally. All our councillors would become independents, with no support network, and Labour nationally would somehow cobble together a slate for our local elections in May. There would obviously be complete chaos, and each ward election would be different depending on the personal following of the councillor involved, but in an area where the Tories have always traditionally been strong the split in the vote would mean that they would win back control easily in West Sussex and resume their decades-long fiefdom of lazy, callous complacency and self serving. All the hard work, all the help for the poor and vulnerable, all the plans for the future would have been for nothing.
Nationally there would doubtless be some great individual results - especially in areas where Greens were a strong alternative force - but in most area the split would invariably favour the Tories and they would gain control of councils all over the place.
At the next election we would have had time to set up an alternative mass party. Have no doubt, in terms of activists it would be a mass party, galvanising countless people - especially young people - who were inspired by the vision which Corbyn had offered them. It would obviously be lambasted by the right wing media, and one of the highlights could be a serious rerun of Wapping both on the streets and online. There would be direct action all over the place. The next election would be chaotic, inspiring, mad, cathartic.......and utterly, utterly disastrous for the poor, sick and vulnerable in the UK.
'Red Labour' (let's call it/us that) would gain far more support than any previous radical left UK electoral movement and would in my opinion end up with around 10% of the vote. Under FPTP the split in the vote with Starmer Labour would, I predict, give the Tories over 400 seats with around 38% of the vote.
Many on the radical Left would hail 10% for a radical left party as a triumph. Under PR, it would be. It would be brilliant. But under FPTP it would be exactly the opposite. It would be a disaster for everyone whose personal circumstances meant that they couldn't support themselves through another 5 years of brutal, heartless, unfettered Tory rule. And telling them 'Starmer Labour would have been no different' would be inviting a punch on the nose.
It would be vastly more exciting, we'd all feel as we did in 2017 only more so...but it would be self indulgence on a scale to make the Bullingdon Club look like abstemious ascetics. And the poor and sick and vulnerable, in whose name we were claiming to speak, would hate our guts and in some cases head off to the far Right. It wouldn't be Starmer pushing them there. It would be us.
I've done gigs for a radical left party in Germany (Die Linke) under PR. I know what it feels like, and it's wonderful. At general elections, as long as you get 5% of the vote - or 3 direct mandates - you get into parliament. At local elections, the sky's the limit. (Die Linke is seriously split at the moment, which is what my recent 'Wagenknecht' single on Spotify is about, but that's another story..)
Of course, those who have turned their back on Labour are welcome to give an alternative scenario. On this crucial day I wanted to put this out there with the core message: until we have PR, this is what we've got, and if helping others is what we're about (it is for me, and for Robina) we have to work with it.

[mattomac]

Let him.

I was on Twitter before , a tweet storm had been taking place for 6 hours according to someone taking the piss out of it.

Seems Paul Mason has been liking tweets suggesting he runs, but according to the Tory party the area is the bedrock of modern Labour so it shouldn't be hard to find someone.

Oddest thing is Corbyn as someone said could have made this hard for Starmer but it's almost that Starmer knew what he would do over that apology, interesting enough it would be interesting to know when it crossed Starmer's mind as Corbyn sort of engineered himself into this position.

I'm not sure if there was pressure on Starmer at the time to move before Corbyn decided to be pissy about the ECHR report, he then didn't retract and was asked for an apology.

Odd thing is by being Jeremy Corbyn he fucked over Jeremy Corbyn.

[Abernathy]

Very true. It was always entirely predictable that Corbyn would stubbornly refuse to retract or apologise for his crass remarks on the publication of the EHRC report. It is also entirely predictable that he will stand against Labour as an independent candidate - his monstrous ego dictates that this will be so.

Starmer has played this quite beautifully.

[Crabcakes]

Meanwhile:

But why is this in the Jez thread, I hear you ask? Because of the replies. Specifically, the reply saying the lead is down to “just 3%” and that Labour are cruising to defeat. It completely ignores the fact this is not a national poll but a poll in the blue wall of solid Tory seats - a poll that *is* news because it shows Labour have a lead even there.

But it cannot be presented as such, because to do so is to admit Starmer has made Labour electable. And this is why booting Corbyn is so essential - because nothing would *ever* satisfy his fan club anyway short of his immediate and permanent reinstatement and a purge of anyone not 100% loyal, so why bother?

[Tubby Isaacs]

There are a couple of absolute classics on there.

The Tories will doubtless beat Labour in the Blue Wall in the election, but the Lab-LD score looks like it'll be significant, and with tactical voting, the Tories have a massive problem. Genius Labour in 2019 ran the leader least likely to appeal to tactical voting.

[Crabcakes]

The tactics at the 2019 election are one of the things that make me most furious about Corbyn and his team. They threw money at unwinnable seats because of favouritism and pettiness (beating disloyal former Labour MPs), and ignored winnable marginals because the MP wasn’t sufficiently forelock-tugging.

The sole bright spot of this is had the result been closer, Corbyn might have hung on. But then had he had the sense and ability to choose winnable battles rather than making it about his hurt feelings and need for adoration he wouldn’t have been so dreadful in the first place.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Plus general delusion like this.

The Tories won Nuneaton by 13,000.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Even in 2017, I have a strong suspicion they were deliberately piling up votes in safe seats for a talking point.

We heard a lot of about Labour losing working class votes before Corbyn became leader. Strangely, the working classness of voters stopped mattering so much in 2017, when they gained Enfield Southgate and lost Mansfield.

[davidjay]

Looking at those replies, I'm still after all these years gobsmacked at how people can be so obsessive about politics, yet at the same time so completely ignorant about the subject.

[Andy McDandy]

To put the Nuneaton numbers into context, in 2010 the neighbouring seat of North Warwickshire elected Dan Byles (Con) with a majority of just 54. That's working class former mining town territory. In 2019 Craig Tracey, the Conservative incumbent, had an 18.000 majority.

Nuneaton, you'd have thought, would be prime Labour territory. Not under Corbyn.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Be interesting to see how Starmer does there, and Nuneaton and Cannock Chase etc. My feeling is that protectionism was a big motivation for voting Tory/UKIP then Brexit, then Bozo. God knows how they feel about how that all turned out. I would expect these seats are still some way beyond Labour.

[Abernathy]

Embittered Jezza said:

"The NEC’s decision to block my candidacy for Islington North is a shameful attack on party democracy, party members and natural justice."

No it's not. It's a democratic decision decided by and voted for democratically by the members of Labour's National Executive Committee, a body whose members are democratically elected via the democratic votes of every Labour Party member.

He accused Starmer of having "launched an assault on the rights of his own Labour members"

Nonsense. Labour members ' rights are completely unchanged, and unassaulted, by this decision.

and "breaking his pledge to build a united and democratic party that advances social, economic and climate justice".

Utter bollocks. A united party requires the desire to unite by every member of that party. It's quite impossible when you have a twat of a former leader undermining the leadership's response to a report into the party by the EHRC -
directly to national news media no less - then stubbornly refusing to resile from his idiotically crass remarks. The party is ready to put forward a winning election manifesto that actually will advance economic, social, and climate justice - unlike anything this twat of a former leader has ever been able to do.

He concluded his statement by saying: "I will not be intimidated into silence. I have spent my life fighting for a fairer society on behalf of the people of Islington North, and I have no intention of stopping now."

Fine. He just ain't stopping doing it as an official Labour candidate. Now, he can fuck right off.