[Youngian]

I’d like to believe what Sweeney says is true but it isn’t. The audience Starmer is focusing on is similar to the one that lost Sunak the leadership election. They’re not ready for home truths.

[The Weeping Angel]

A key problem which I don't think a lot of remainers have addressed is this. What makes you think the EU wants us back.

[MisterMuncher]

There's been a pervasive misunderstanding in Britain that once Britain had reached a consensus, the other side would simply rubber-stamp it and move on. I think in the case of rejoining, the main players might well row up in favour of rejoin, maybe even with all UK's prior carve outs substantially the same, but the newer membership will be much harder to convince.

[Abernathy]

A key problem which I don't think a lot of remainers have addressed is this. What makes you think the EU wants us back.

A fair question, which is answered pretty convincingly in the negative by a correspondent to the New European, here :

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/would ... quad-back/

There is a more nuanced take on the question here :

i https://www.theguardian.com/world/comm ... neighbours

[Spoonman]

A key problem which I don't think a lot of remainers have addressed is this. What makes you think the EU wants us back.

One thing that I can be reasonably certain about should any negotiations between the EU & UK take place on a scenario of the latter wanting to rejoin the former is that the EU will insist that the UK adopts the Euro & joins the Schengen Area within no more than a two to three years after rejoining - a massive red line by the EU that will insist will not be up for negotiation. The EU are gonna make sure that if the UK rejoins their club, they're not going to end up dealing with a load of mischief from them again.

[Crabcakes]

I’d like to believe what Sweeney says is true but it isn’t. The audience Starmer is focusing on is similar to the one that lost Sunak the leadership election. They’re not ready for home truths.

I think the truth is slowly sinking in, and that there will be a tipping point. What is in Starmer’s favour is I suspect a great deal of people absolutely see through this and understand what’s going on. Indeed, there was a survey that pretty much said this recently.

The only risk is that when that tipping point comes, Starmer is too slow to react. But I think he’s far too intelligent for this. I’m expecting the status quo for now so as not to give the Tories an opening, perhaps coupled with some very subtle shifts, and then in office a slow shift to Norway-type status.

Starmer is clearly playing a long game that will benefit us all. Which will be quite the revelation given for the past 5 years we’ve basically had back of fag packet ideas, knee jerk responses and telling everyone what they want to hear just to survive another day in a plush office.

[Bones McCoy]

On reversing Brexit gradually.

There are plenty of slots in the picture below that would be beter than our current state - without passing all the hoops for full reentry.
And that means quicker and less controversial ways to a better economy.

[The Weeping Angel]

https://labourlist.org/2023/01/britain- ... rs-speech/

[Tubby Isaacs]

A key problem which I don't think a lot of remainers have addressed is this. What makes you think the EU wants us back.

Absolutely.

[mattomac]

It’s the one thing I’ve heard from several friends on the continent, Starmer will have to start building relationships again, something he seems to be open to, he wouldn’t have met the Germany social democrats in quite an open way if he wasn’t willing to make friendships.

[The Weeping Angel]

This has particularly caused Twitter to go in to meltdown

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... s-64281548

[kreuzberger]

That woeful lack of prior preparation is a worry. He is also waxing lyrical about self-referral about "back-pain and internal bleeding".

Starmer is not a doctor and nor am I. That's why I went to a trained professional who referred me to another professional, (one who knows how to work a big fucking scanner tube), where the structural damage was isolated and held to account, rather than a renal cyst.

Multiply that by 66 million people marching in a demanding an MRI - NOW!!1! - and we can see how that might not be practical. He might as well have written this nonsense on a bus.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

Woops.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

I asked a friend in France how it works there. She replied:

So now we have everybody insisting that self referral doesn’t work. Meanwhile those of us who live in France and Germany would beg to differ. And I don’t think anybody is going to suggest that France and Germany don’t have good medical care. The initial referral is via a GP. If I get sick again afterwards having been referred to a specialist I go back to the specialist. There are also some specialists that you self refer to: gynae, psychiatry, ophthalmol for starters. And we both know Keir will know this.

[kreuzberger]

Your friend in the German system replies; yes but no.

There are many different levels of specialist which whisk you on the journey from it being a bit sore to opiates-on-demand and the Premier League on the telly on the 21st floor of the Charité. It isn't quite as simple as it sounds.

Being privately insured like Rishi Shortstrides, I could cut a week or two out of the whole process, so my first port of call was an orthopaedic "specialist", insofar as he doesn't deal with psych issues or period pains. It was he who booked me in for the scans with a written brief based on a prognosis. If he had even remotely suspected a complaint outwith his field, he would have bounced my arse back to my GP, or, as it the case with my dead hips, over to another specialist team. That'll be another 200€, thanks very much, and that's just for the referral.

There is simply no way that I could have rocked up to the radio team and demanded a scan or googled the S1/L5 top-dog, asking if he could slot me in on the following Friday with the titanium lads on stand-by. Less so, could I have presented to Mob 2.0 for a hip replacement just because it has the strong whiff of a good idea. That might be the French-Way, indeed it might be, but we do things differently here, respecting the judgement of those who actually know more than the money our insurance will be pegged for.

Starmer appears to be worryingly ill-informed to be painting these pictures, even regarding the relatively simple case I would have presented, albeit with many different diagnoses and potential outcomes, and namely because of the hidden, domino complexities.

A simple leap from an ambulance queue of cadavers to free for all self-referrals is just silly, but I get that stupid solutions reverberate well amongst the congenitally dim.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Interestingly, the Government have responded that this already happens herewith some minor conditions.

[The Weeping Angel]

Meanwhile everyone is going nuclear because Labour haven't condemned Sunak bloc the Scottish gender bill.

[Tubby Isaacs]

The logic of the Labour position was pretty strongly against it. Ian Murray sounded better today than yesterday.

I can get why they wanted to wait for the government to set out its case, which doesn't seem particularly strong.

[Oboogie]

Interestingly, the Government have responded that this already happens herewith some minor conditions.

It's also the case with particularly serious conditions, in an emergency, I'm off to A&E, I'm certainly not going to wait a fortnight for an appointment with my GP. See also the current discussion of vaccinations in a separate thread.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Yep.

The example Sir Keir gave in the interview was physiotherapy and he's had some stick for that. But if I look at the NHS web site, what do I see?

If you need physiotherapy, a number of different options are available to you.

You can see a physiotherapist:

by getting a referral from a doctor
by contacting a physiotherapist directly
at some GP surgeries
privately

Obviously, there are cases where GP-specialist is exactly the right way to go. If you have a slipped disc, you might refer yourself to the physio when you actually need surgery.