[Tubby Isaacs]

Yair Wallach has another thread. Not very complementary of Jez overall.

[RedSparrows]

Still as true today as it was in 2018.

It's absolutely right and just to observe the mendacity and cruelties of international politics, support for brutal regimes et al.

It's just the answer isn't a prettified inversion, where the subject of the 'anti' position is changed but nothing else is.

[kettle]

I'm a bit dubious about these claims that Corbyn was smeared. With the notable exception of the Czech spy story, weren't all of the stories, less smears, more reports of his past actions and statements?

There were a lot of really strange reactions by the media which were just disproportionate.

A very simple point which comes to mind is this - do you know what Jeremy Corbyn's house looks like? I do. And yet I doubt I could pick any other MP or LOTO's house out of a line-up. The press were sat outside it every day, despite him persistently refusing to give quotes at his doorstep. If he were in the midst of a scandal it could perhaps be excused but otherwise it smacks of intimidation and harassment, despite what one may think of the "duty" of an MP to "play the game".

The LSE article Oblomov linked lends some academic credence to this idea, but I've picked a few moments out where the press was uniquely insane -





The bowing incident was particularly galling, not just because it was a lie, but because Corbyn stuck around after the ceremony to speak with WWII veterans whilst the rest of the well-heeled fucked off for dinner.

Oh the maoist bicycle stuff too.

And this derranged headline



Ed Miliband got an unfair ride in the press too, no doubt. Of course it was the same press who were happy to mock this culturally Jewish man for ((eating a bacon sandwich wrong)) and having ((two kitchens)) and having a ((rootless academic marxist father)) who would then go on to pretend they gave a flying fuck about anti-semitism.

[Crabcakes]

I don't dispute at all that Corbyn got a hard time from the press, but again he was often his own worst enemy. I'd be wiling to bet the press sat outside his house precisely because he never gave soundbites and instead did his grumpy petulant old man routine, which was always great for pictures or clips and *always* made it look like he had something to hide whether he did or not. If he'd just calmly and politely gave a quote or soundbite they'd have got bored and fucked off. But of course he couldn't do that as "playing the game" would have lost him leftie brownie points.

[Youngian]

Wasn't that bothered by Corbyn's grubby charge sheet as an adept politician worthy of the top job would bat it away. McDonnell managed it with a mixture of contrition and history replacement therapy. And it wasn't very convincing either; 'Sorry I offended anyone for searching for a way of breaking the log-jam in Northern Ireland. The past is a foreign country and those were desperate times before the GFA, which I fully support.'

[Tubby Isaacs]

I thought he was fucked by the previous from the start.

McDonnell did handle it much better, but he'd been much more careful than Jez in terms of "foreign policy".

[kettle]

I don't dispute at all that Corbyn got a hard time from the press, but again he was often his own worst enemy. I'd be wiling to bet the press sat outside his house precisely because he never gave soundbites and instead did his grumpy petulant old man routine, which was always great for pictures or clips and *always* made it look like he had something to hide whether he did or not. If he'd just calmly and politely gave a quote or soundbite they'd have got bored and fucked off. But of course he couldn't do that as "playing the game" would have lost him leftie brownie points.

I suppose the conclusion then would be that the press were not remotely interested in collecting information or advancing a story, but simply presenting their own narrative/perspective. At which point you may be right that they may have left, or doubled down now the know they could bully him into giving a quote.

The issue then, however, is that if they are willing to camp outside his house on/off for years, there's clearly a mindset and pattern of behaviour that leads them to do this. that behaviour then simply expresses itself through other avenues.

Oh, forgot this one too, when Kuenssberg and Peston rushed off to breathlessly tweet about momentum thugs assaulting conservative staff outside of a hospital when in reality a conservative staffer walked into someone's arm.

https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/bbc-and- ... in-tweets/

[Malcolm Armsteen]

I suppose the conclusion then would be that the press were not remotely interested in collecting information or advancing a story, but simply presenting their own narrative/perspective.

If anything was ever a given...

[kettle]

I wasn't making that comment to shock the world, simply presenting my working. If we take it as a given that the press weren't acting in good faith and that they have an agenda, then surely the idea that they would respect Corbyn "playing the game" and would lay off him is, simply not credible.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

He gave them far too much ammunition. Real politicians avoid doing that wherever possible (hence trapping them with bacon sandwiches and motor drives).

[Andy McDandy]

As demonstrated by Greg Dyke and, showing he knows the game, Johnson, the best way to win round the doorstep press pack is the tea round.

They've been out there for ages. They're hungry and thirsty. They're human, and what they really want is something to report on. So you do the tea round. Mismatched cups, no poncey biscuits. Bring it out on a tray, bat off a few questions with a smile, go back inside. They've got their footage, they can't really make you look like a shit when you're serving hot drinks, you look more human, and they bugger off.

[kettle]

He gave them far too much ammunition. Real politicians avoid doing that wherever possible (hence trapping them with bacon sandwiches and motor drives).

The Prime Minister is a serial adulterer with a string of illegitimate children such that he won't even commit to numbering them. He has been fired repeatedly for lying and once conspired to have a journalist assaulted. I feel this is fertile ground for 'ammunition' and yet this did not seem to be picked up by the press to the same extent. As was covered up-thread much of the ammunition levelled against Corbyn was simply lies.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

As demonstrated by Greg Dyke and, showing he knows the game, Johnson, the best way to win round the doorstep press pack is the tea round.

They've been out there for ages. They're hungry and thirsty. They're human, and what they really want is something to report on. So you do the tea round. Mismatched cups, no poncey biscuits. Bring it out on a tray, bat off a few questions with a smile, go back inside. They've got their footage, they can't really make you look like a shit when you're serving hot drinks, you look more human, and they bugger off.

~Exactly the example I was thinking of.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

He gave them far too much ammunition. Real politicians avoid doing that wherever possible (hence trapping them with bacon sandwiches and motor drives).

The Prime Minister is a serial adulterer with a string of illegitimate children such that he won't even commit to numbering them. He has been fired repeatedly for lying and once conspired to have a journalist assaulted. I feel this is fertile ground for 'ammunition' and yet this did not seem to be picked up by the press to the same extent. As was covered up-thread much of the ammunition levelled against Corbyn was simply lies.

I'm afraid the elecorate's answer is 'And?'

The Jezter got his answer from the only opinion poll that matters - a fact that Corbyn-fluffers always ignore.
The electorate hated him. That was his own fault.

[Nigredo]

How could you not want to vote for this eh?

[Boiler]

The Prime Minister is a serial adulterer with a string of illegitimate children such that he won't even commit to numbering them. He has been fired repeatedly for lying and once conspired to have a journalist assaulted. I feel this is fertile ground for 'ammunition' and yet this did not seem to be picked up by the press to the same extent. As was covered up-thread much of the ammunition levelled against Corbyn was simply lies.

True, but; you're dealing with an electorate who seemingly only care about tits, lager and football if you believe the Sun - and one thing I have sadly observed is the death of shame.

Some might say that's a good thing; but in order to achieve it, it feels like any sense of morality in public life had to be sacrificed. If we go back say, forty years, someone of Johnson's character wouldn't have even got to be on a town council, let alone Prime Minister.

And yes, Corbyn was hated by much of the electorate - he embodied the much-lampooned "Loony Left" of the 80s. I doubt your average single parent on a ZHC having to go down a food bank to put something on the table for their children's tea is terribly bothered about Palestine or trans rights - something Corbyn's Labour managed to alienate a lot of people with.

[Oboogie]

How could you not want to vote for this eh?

That's a smear!!

[Malcolm Armsteen]

I think you'll find that's a skidmark.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I wasn't making that comment to shock the world, simply presenting my working. If we take it as a given that the press weren't acting in good faith and that they have an agenda, then surely the idea that they would respect Corbyn "playing the game" and would lay off him is, simply not credible.

Yeah, I think that's probably correct

His previous was more than enough though. I mean, there's a reason people don't invite Hamas over for a cup of tea where everyone agrees the real issue is Zionism.

[Crabcakes]

I wasn't making that comment to shock the world, simply presenting my working. If we take it as a given that the press weren't acting in good faith and that they have an agenda, then surely the idea that they would respect Corbyn "playing the game" and would lay off him is, simply not credible.

The two things aren't mutually exclusive though, because it's not about respect for playing the game. It's the exact opposite - if someone isn't playing the game and you are, you know full well you can simply bang in goals all day while they grumble away on the sidelines. The press never cared that Corbyn saw himself as above them, were never embarrassed or shamed when he scolded them for not interviewing him and only asking him about things he wanted to talk about, and the issue was the public didn't see it as a principled stand either - they just saw a miserable old sod. There are plenty of documented examples of Corbyn's Labour completely failing to engage with the press, not sending releases, not responding to requests for quotes etc. - and often on issues they really wanted to talk about. And that was because his back office staff were poorly organised.

Why aren't the press camped outside Starmer's house? Because he's savvy enough to know how to deal with them so they won't get anything worth having. Corbyn wasn't savvy enough himself, but also wasn't smart enough (or too egotistical - dealer's choice) to hire someone who did know how to handle the press either. So we get a scenario where he becomes the story because he can't handle the requirements of his job, and further refuses to because he wants everyone to pivot to work the way he wants them to. And when they don't all his supporters scream "conspiracy" and convince themselves still further that Corbyn was blameless and it was all the press.

In reality, his being unfairly treated isn't why he was shit, but his being shit is *absolutely* why his being unfairly treated was drastically more of an issue than other labour leaders. You have to go into the role and be better than the Tories because you will be held to account more and targeted unfairly. It's a crappy state of affairs, but it is what it is. But what you can't do is just whine "it isn't fair" and demand on par treatment (or even preferential treatment, given he didn't even like fair questions a lot of the time), go at it with zero game plan and then on top of it all be worse than previous leaders when you're trying to convince people that yes, you actually are the man for the job.