[Andy McDandy]

Part of the problem there is that we're so used to Godwin's law, along with our "could never happen here" attitude, that when a comparison is warranted, it's quickly dismissed.

While I have no doubt that he will be ousted sooner or later, he has form for clinging onto the trappings of office as if they're his personally. Grace and favour foreign office apartment, anyone? Likewise the Chequers tree house.

He's a fucking mess and he knows it. He needs the support circle, the bag carriers. Can you imagine him negotiating a transaction in any sort of shop, save for a knocking one?

[Malcolm Armsteen]

If it's not fascism what do you call it, ffs?

[Boiler]

I noticed some left-wing bloggers are once again screaming "Nazi tactics!" about Johnson and how the UK is slipping into a fascist regime under him, with inevitable comparisons to Hitler and Trump.

I do wish they'd cut the histrionics.

I agree that calls of "Fascism!" are greatly exaggerated.
But I think we need a better way to highlight the warning signs.

Two writers: Eco (1995) and Britt (2003) published slightly differing lists comprising 14 defining characteristics of Fascism.

Eco was particularly interested in the development of fascism through a phase he termed ur-Fascism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitio ... mberto_Eco

Ah, "ur-Fascism" - a favourite term of the "Anonymous" frother who comments on every Fenton blog post.

I still remain unconvinced and to compare everything to Hitler demeans the sheer evil of the Nazi regime, a comparison I - along with many others - have been guilty of making in the past. I mean, I don't see those people who claim this being rounded up and shot behind a barn in a quiet village.

[Boiler]

Part of the problem there is that we're so used to Godwin's law, along with our "could never happen here" attitude, that when a comparison is warranted, it's quickly dismissed.

I never approved of "Godwin's Law", for the record. Too often used to stifle discussion - I used to see a lot of that in the Usenet days and even now I knew of one Conservative supporter whom I once described as a Lincolnshire version of JR-M who really dislikes such comparisons being made.

Overton Window, anybody? It would explain much.

[Boiler]

While I have no doubt that he will be ousted sooner or later, he has form for clinging onto the trappings of office as if they're his personally. Grace and favour foreign office apartment, anyone? Likewise the Chequers tree house.

Some folks try
To multiply
From sunrise to sunset
Leave behind
More of their kind
So no-one will forget

The opening verse of Level 42's World Machine.

Johnson seems to be one of those people - never mind the innumerable children, it's this desire to leave tangible, lasting legacies; buses that don't work properly (but see also Livingstone, K.), bridges, airports... his "King Of The World" fantasy?

[Andy McDandy]

Facts on the ground, as the Chinese call it.

Statues aside, what lasting memorials to former prime ministers are there? Not the likes of the open University, because one doesn't necessarily think.of Harold Wilson when referencing it. Some things by association, such as Bobbies after Robert Peel, but not many buildings or structures. Partly I suppose because we're a monarchy, and the PM is just servant number one.

But he wants his bridge or tunnel, something with his name on it, that every person using will be forced to remember him. That's a really quite disturbing bit of megalomania. That and the constant macho displays and fucking around as if the only measure of a man is how many women he can impregnate.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

to compare everything to Hitler demeans the sheer evil of the Nazi regime, a comparison I - along with many others - have been guilty of making in the past. I mean, I don't see those people who claim this being rounded up and shot behind a barn in a quiet village.

Here's your problem, Boiler. You don't know what you are talking about.

Hitler was (sort of) a fascist. Nazism was (sort of) fascist. But fascism is not Hitler or Nazism.

Fascism refers to a centralised, authoritarian government which suppresses opposition and reduces democratic participation. Authoritarianism, populism.

I really don't think that British Fascism would lead to extermination camps - though it might lead to forcible repatriation and a two-tier human rights system. It's unlikely that we would ever see anything as extreme as Nazism again, but Franco's Spanish version? Entirely possible.

[Boiler]

Fair enough, I consider myself corrected. Here's hoping I remember it.

[RedSparrows]

to compare everything to Hitler demeans the sheer evil of the Nazi regime, a comparison I - along with many others - have been guilty of making in the past. I mean, I don't see those people who claim this being rounded up and shot behind a barn in a quiet village.

Here's your problem, Boiler. You don't know what you are talking about.

Hitler was (sort of) a fascist. Nazism was (sort of) fascist. But fascism is not Hitler or Nazism.

Fascism refers to a centralised, authoritarian government which suppresses opposition and reduces democratic participation. Authoritarianism, populism.

I really don't think that British Fascism would lead to extermination camps - though it might lead to forcible repatriation and a two-tier human rights system. It's unlikely that we would ever see anything as extreme as Nazism again, but Franco's Spanish version? Entirely possible.

To be fair the leap of Fascism > Nazism is one many, many people make. Franco, Salazar, even Mussolini - they don't figure large in the popular imagination.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

I had hoped that here we're not the 'general population'.

[mattomac]

Timothy Sydner had a list in his book towards a authoritarian state and I think that works well especially with populist leaders.

I remember counting America was 2/3rds under Trump, Bolosarno was pretty close with his references but I think it’s disconnecting fascism from nazism would be a good thing because that’s the end post of these authoritarian states.

Franco especially post 45 and Mussolini are of course miles away from the current lot even Bolosarno but it’s not hard to see how they get there. Shouting fascism every five minutes won’t work though.

[Watchman]

Truly delusional

Johnson says his government is ‘exceptional’ as he tries to calm Tory MPs
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... SApp_Other

[Abernathy]

Yes. Exceptionally shite.

[Bones McCoy]

Exceptional: as in "You'll never see another like it"

I can work with that.

[satnav]

A minister early tried to argue that MPs had a choice between sticking with Johnson or chaos. That some what implies that we have not had chaos for the last 3 years.

[Nigredo]

They'll lean into parts of fascism because that's what props up being led by a personality cultist like the pork haystack, however I think they'll stop short of achieving all 14 of those points because it would mean having to actually invest in the armed and police forces to impose their authority, and they won't do that when they could be diverting that money into the hedge funds/bank accounts of several school chums instead.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

But it's not a checklist, it's a set of markers - there could be others.

The key end results are the diminution of democracy and accountability, populism and what used to be called corporatism, but which nowadays has far less of a role for workers than under Mussolini's system. It's now control of the state by corporations - multinationals - which is what people fear about globalism.

The methods used to bring this about are what is described in the 14 stages.

[Nigredo]

Good points that I will need to have a think on. My problem is that I see people make direct comparison to authoritarian states of the past and I think it's a touch overblown because dissidents aren't being pushed out of helicopters into the ocean.

Yet.

[Youngian]

What you should fear from Johnson and Brexit is a move towards a client state economy in which a few loyal producers dominate the economy. As in Russia and increasingly Hungary. Its been a feature in some leftist populist regimes as well the authoritarian hard right. Its basically capitalism by licence from the executive. The new right critiqued this form of government in the early 80s claiming it would stifle innovation and creativity in society. Not a controversial observation given overwhelming evidence they were right.

[Andy McDandy]

Interesting thread here on how we've seen this pattern of events several times:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1540 ... JfPK-1tGRM

TL/DR: western Anglophone society is built on the assumption that white men are running the show. Diversity and equality can be tolerated up to a point, on the tacit understanding that they can be rolled back at any moment.

In the quest for more and more money, corporate power increased, and began to grow beyond state control. However, what started off as a tool for economic dominance became a great leveller, as globalisation saw jobs going overseas, particularly in extractive/manufacturing industries. As states go into decline, they retreat into protectionism, assigned gender roles, and faux nostalgia for the glory days when men were men and women knew their place.

All about old white men clinging onto their power.

National Conservative candidates are calling for a new order where women stay at home and men work in factories.

This plan is predicated on getting rid of reproductive choice, instituting a religious orthodoxy for control, and changing almost everything about our labor.

Christian Nationalism is going to be incredibly useful for the authoritarians.

It promotes subservience but also, like what fascists did, it sanctifies the sacrifice of exploitation and labor. It will give this political project a mythology that confirms it.

Meanwhile, the Supreme Court, funded by the same wealthy donors who are funding National Conservatism and the continued attacks on democracy, will wind back the progress of the 20th century, including individual/labor rights and regulations

Creating a new labor situation

Public education, which is under relentless attack, will eventually either be completely destroyed or turned into a prison-like system that specializes in indoctrination and functions almost exactly like a state-run prison

That part of the equation is already well under way

And here's a hard truth: It's unlikely that corporations will allow a system where single-worker homes can function, which will probably mean a return to the era where the entire family labored 60 to 80 hours for pennies.

A return to child labor.