[Youngian]

How worrying is this?

Not a huge surprise, as Bristol seems to be possibly the most Corbyn-friendly area outside Islington for some reason. Lots of disaffected Corbynites socking it to Starmer the Cop by voting Green.

It wouldn't surprise me if this is something we start seeing more of over the coming years, i.e. Labour facing a real battle with the Greens in some of the university seats. Labour need to be very savvy with who they chose as candidates for these constituencies in future.

Greens did well in left behind towns as well like Burnley. They could easily add the dustbin vote (previously Liberal and UKIP) to a left vote as Charles Kennedy did.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Owen Jones
@OwenJones84

Labour staff tell me that Keir Starmer and general secretary David Evans speaking to them "just now didn't even mention the reshuffle let alone apologise for dragging us through the shit over the weekend and overshadowing the better results we had."

Why might that be, Owen?

Oh because whoever told you this would have said "Starmer admits shitshow privately". Funny they'd want to avoid that, isn't it?

[Samanfur]

Greens did well in left behind towns as well like Burnley. They could easily add the dustbin vote (previously Liberal and UKIP) to a left vote as Charles Kennedy did.

I've a few friends in the East Lancashire Greens. To give credit where it's due, they're competent, and they're pushing hard.

[Youngian]

New Cambs mayor Dr Nik looks like a man who can reach out beyond traditional Labour voters

[Tubby Isaacs]

I've been thinking about "unsuitable Remainer" Paul WIlliams. What are the offences he committed? What distinguishes him from unsuitable Remainer, Jeremy Corbyn , as far as the electorate are concerned?

This was a load of cack got up by Corbyn cronies, wasn't it?

[Arrowhead]

I've been thinking about "unsuitable Remainer" Paul WIlliams. What are the offences he committed? What distinguishes him from unsuitable Remainer, Jeremy Corbyn , as far as the electorate are concerned?

This was a load of cack got up by Corbyn cronies, wasn't it?

For an area which voted 70% Leave, Williams seemed a slightly awkward fit to me. I get why he was chosen - a highly capable former MP from a nearby constituency and all-round good egg, but it still raised an eyebrow. His voting record in parliament re Brexit was always going to be used against him by the Tories. It's true to say that there is a reason why there are so few pro-Brexit voices within Labour (as Malc outlined elsewhere on the forum recently), but I'm surprised they plumped for one with such a high-profile record.

But yeah, much of it is sniping from Corbynites luxuriating in a bad few days for Starmer. They'll never be satisfied.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Do you think that the voting record made much difference compared with putting up somebody who'd voted with the Corbyn whip and run on the 2019 manifesto though? If they mean they needed to put up a Lexit goon, they should say so. They're own man, Corbyn didn't even vote for the Brexit deal the public (for now) like.

Sure opponents would mention it, but opponents would mention it, but the Tory candidate's record wasn't quite "Hartlepool". Yet they didn't immediately go "Oh FFS, they've chosen a businesswoman-farmer who used to be married to a bigwig in the Cayman Islands! Local people won't stand for that!"

[Tubby Isaacs]

[The Weeping Angel]

Do you think that the voting record made much difference compared with putting up somebody who'd voted with the Corbyn whip and run on the 2019 manifesto though? If they mean they needed to put up a Lexit goon, they should say so. They're own man, Corbyn didn't even vote for the Brexit deal the public (for now) like.

Sure opponents would mention it, but opponents would mention it, but the Tory candidate's record wasn't quite "Hartlepool". Yet they didn't immediately go "Oh FFS, they've chosen a businesswoman-farmer who used to be married to a bigwig in the Cayman Islands! Local people won't stand for that!"

Yeah plus the he's not even local that Corbynites trotted out neither is Jill Mortimer or Thelma Walker for that matter but they never complained about that.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Jill Mortimer is moving to Hartlepool, apparently. I'm not expecting that to be a particularly "Red Wall" looking house. Unless she's keeping the other place as well. I think the opposition might have a few lines for next time.

Didn't Paul Williams work in Stockton?

[Andy McDandy]

Plenty of posh places around there. North Yorkshire moors for a start. My uncle used to work for ICI in Middlesbrough and he said that the village of Nunthorpe where he lived was virtually all ICI management.

[Youngian]

If taxes and/or interest rates rise how keen will Worcester woman and Basildon man be on spaffing money up North on nebulous uncosted Boris white elephants? Labour may find itself in a strange political place. Labour can at least speak with authority: 'We used to do this stuff but dicovered it was a dead duck decades ago.' More likely Johnson will lose interest due to the hard work needed in pulling off successful economic state planning and Red Wall decline will accelerate.

[Tubby Isaacs]

The proper online left would complain that Labour was "supporting cuts" and "to the right of the Tories". Same as they did when Starmer talked about business, to exploit Brexit trade barrier twattery. And as they did when Labour opposed business tax rises in a slump. (Sunak didn't bring in any tax rises immediately anyway- well done, chaps).

[mattomac]

Just want to point out not all students will vote Green, dunno if Corbyn and students is that big a correlation either.

Brighton evidently rejected Momentum majority Labour council.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Bit of hubris from Andy Burnham, I think, on devolution.

Not everybody lives in a big conurbation. Labour hasn't lost voters in Durham because they want Durham County Council to have more powers. And it's all good at the moment for metro mayors, who are either like Houchen (announcing spaffing), Street (announcing plans), Burnham himself (some of both, plus sticking it to the Tories). But before long there's going to be more "You spent what?!" and "So where is it then?" And the Tories will happily let you cop the blame.

[Boiler]

[Samanfur]

Starting as she means to go on, I hope.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

Has everyone read Tony Blair's piece in the Statesman?

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2 ... r-will-die

I recommend it. I think he has just about hit the nail on the head, and his appeal to Lib Dems to chuck out the orange book and join in a progressive alliance is timely.

His criticism of Keir Starmer is surgical, but not what the right-wing press have reported, he's not calling for a change of leader, he's calling for a change to the party. It's the relaunch of the Third Way.

I quite like it.

[Boiler]

Posted by a staunch Tory defender elsewhere:

Beyond that, Blair was a mediocre PM. He didn't understand what to do with the power he gained, and had a superficial view of what an achievement might look like. But on one point, his government did recognise something that his party successors have managed to forget, and which lies at the heart of their weakness - that people have aspirations, and want to do better with their lives. That was, to me, a genuinely progressive insight - far more so than the emphasis on equality that is frequently present in Labour.

[RedSparrows]

Aspiration being contradictory with equality is one of the dullest ideas around.