[The Weeping Angel]

Everyone's losing their shit over this.

A senior Labour party source told City A.M. that Starmer is expected to “slaughter the sacred cows of Corbynism” in the lead-up to summer, with speculation this could soon include ditching the former Labour leader’s pledges to nationalise rail, mail, energy and water.

A Starmer ally said the Labour leader had no intention of talking about nationalisation in next week’s speech, but that he would “put more meat on the bones of what a Starmer government will focus on”.

The push will rankle MPs on the left of the party still loyal to the Corbyn agenda, with one saying that an attempt to abandon some of Labour’s more radical policies from the last election would be “nonsensical”.

With just two years until the next election is due, shadow cabinet ministers have become increasingly vocal about the need to definitively drop Labour’s 2019 election offering.

https://www.cityam.com/exclusive-starme ... -speeches/

[Oboogie]

I'm not.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

I'm not.

That makes at least two of us.

[Oboogie]

I expect we're the odd ones out.
Yeah, that'll be it.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Benefits of train service nationization are very over sold, but it's cheap and popular. I'd keep that. The rest is probably
very expensive. Dump those and rely on regulation.

[Boiler]

Benefits of train service nationization are very over sold, but it's cheap and popular. I'd keep that. The rest is probably
very expensive. Dump those and rely on regulation.

Isn't that what "Great British Railways" is in all but name?

[Abernathy]

I'm not.

That makes at least two of us.

Me too, chaps.

[Abernathy]

Everyone's losing their shit over this.

A senior Labour party source told City A.M. that Starmer is expected to “slaughter the sacred cows of Corbynism” in the lead-up to summer, with speculation this could soon include ditching the former Labour leader’s pledges to nationalise rail, mail, energy and water.

A Starmer ally said the Labour leader had no intention of talking about nationalisation in next week’s speech, but that he would “put more meat on the bones of what a Starmer government will focus on”.

The push will rankle MPs on the left of the party still loyal to the Corbyn agenda, with one saying that an attempt to abandon some of Labour’s more radical policies from the last election would be “nonsensical”.

With just two years until the next election is due, shadow cabinet ministers have become increasingly vocal about the need to definitively drop Labour’s 2019 election offering.

https://www.cityam.com/exclusive-starme ... -speeches/

Those losing their shit are basically Squealer and his chums.

The reality is that no party, especially not the Labour Party, retains the same manifesto with which it heavily lost the last election for the next one. That would be a kind of insanity. The 2019 manifesto was a Curate’s Egg, and some elements of it might well survive into the party’s new offer for the coming election, but for the most part, Labour will develop a completely new manifesto on which to fight the 2023/4 election. Which is just how it’s done. And the hysterical Corbots know this - or at any rate they fucking well should. For one thing , the final election manifesto is not agreed until the Clause V meeting, which usually takes place only about 4 or 5 weeks before polling day.

[Youngian]

Those losing their shit are basically Squealer and his chums.

The reality is that no party, especially not the Labour Party, retains the same manifesto with which it heavily lost the last election for the next one. That would be a kind of insanity. The 2019 manifesto was a Curate’s Egg, and some elements of it might well survive into the party’s new offer for the coming election, but for the most part, Labour will develop a completely new manifesto on which to fight the 2023/4 election.

Chris has a plan. Angela Rayner has been upsetting the comrades with some bitch slap talking about ‘ shooting terrorists first and asking questions, later.’ I assume she supports the same current rules of engagement as Corbyn.

[Cyclist]

They're not not living in the same reality as the rest of the planet. According to Walter Jons the Tories didn't win in 2017, they had to form a coalition. With the Conservatives one assumes. And would Chris Sanderson care to explain how the "rapidly sinking right wing Labour Party" is managing to poll consistently higher than the One True Way ever did? As for Oliver Tkl, it's amazing how a whole Party managed to desert the leader, isn't it. A person with a functioning brain might take a closer look at that leader and ask a few questions.

Starmer really does need to kick these thick wankers out of the Party, and to be seen to be distancing Labour from them. They are beyond redemption and must go.

[Boiler]

And at the risk of being shot down for this, what kind of image does a perma-squabbling Labour Party present to the British electorate?

The oft-mentioned "Broad Church" seems to mean "as long as the other side is kicked out."

[Andy McDandy]

Re. Chris Sanderson. If and could are doing a lot of heavy lifting in his messages.

[Boiler]

I thought Corbyn was setting up his own party, or did I miss something?

[Cyclist]

I thought Corbyn was setting up his own party, or did I miss something?

You seem to be forgetting that that would involve work, something Jeremy is averse to.

[Youngian]

And at the risk of being shot down for this, what kind of image does a perma-squabbling Labour Party present to the British electorate?

The oft-mentioned "Broad Church" seems to mean "as long as the other side is kicked out."

Corbyn doesn’t represent or attract a side but a rump that got lucky. The rest of the party is perfectly capable of being a collegiate broad church within a spectrum of ideas. Ultimately you only command loyalty by winning elections. Apart from the comrades. Even if Starmer wins an election with a landslide Owen Jones and Bastani will produce stats showing how Jeremy was more popular. Or Keir’s a Tory establishment plant. You can’t reason with these people and its just as well they’re electoral poison.

[mattomac]

The latest twitter stuff seems to suggest that they believe Starmer is no different from the Tories.

Very easy to believe if you see anything to the right of Corbyn as fascism but bullshit if you live in the real world.

There is gap which a awful lot of long term Labour Party members sit, they are loyal to the party and generally will always see a Labour Party as good and the Tories as evil.

I still sit partially there, Corbyn actually lost some of these people which was remarkable while others sat it out. The last thing I want to see is some of the stuff we saw behind the scenes in the Blair years in which you’d go for an interview and be interviewed by a nephew or Mandelson and god son of Blair (actually happened). But the fact is the people changed but that stuff remained under Corbyn.

I do agree with Boiler on the part of fighting in public mind, it’s not a good look but it does feel like it’s nitpicking by some. As I see it Starmer is more in the Miliband mode of position on the left, though he is a much better leader.

When the left come up with something on Starmer that isn’t the way he pronounced Coventry I might give it the time of day, sadly again it’s not an issue that is wider than Coventry and Unite I think could do without throwing so many stones.

The way Starmer is presented by certain people you’d think he was to the right of Boris Johnson, that shit I have little time for and that’s the problem, once you cry wolf on shit like how he pronounced Coventry or how he is supporting NATO you lose all ability to be critical on actual issues.

As for nationalisation, it’s a weak idea, I’ve always said the trains need it as they are a public good and potentially water but going “we’d nationalise everything” is just weak policy, you need to follow that up otherwise you’d nationalise energy proclaiming it’s a green move and end up opening coal mines again to cover supply issues.

Trains are pretty much nationalised in the background now anyhow, expect other moves to happen. Labour ran on the 2017 manifesto twice and by the second time it had become a mess of ideas some good some not so good, there was no message to it and ultimately the buck stops at the top.

[Crabcakes]

The scale works as follows, I think:
Good - people who think *exactly* like us
Bad - people who are right-wing
Worst - people who are not right-wing, but who do not think *exactly* like us
Basically Hitler - anyone from the above who actively works against us, or was one of us but has made even the slightest transgression
Basically Hitler with a gun that gives you herpes and he’s bringing back the council tax - as above but they are successful

[Abernathy]

And at the risk of being shot down for this, what kind of image does a perma-squabbling Labour Party present to the British electorate?

The oft-mentioned "Broad Church" seems to mean "as long as the other side is kicked out."

Herewith my shooting down.

Name? Boiler.
Specialist subject? The bleedin’ obvious.

Of course a perma-squabbling Labour Party isn’t electorally a great look, but it just isn’t possible to wave a magic wand and hey presto, no more squabbles. And it is somewhat naive to believe that it is.

The party is still the proverbial “broad church”, but it continues to be afflicted by those within it whose purpose in life is to disrupt moderate electorally successful strategy. Yes, kicking the Trots out is the ideal corrective, but is hard to achieve in practice. Marginalisation - very successfully implemented by Sir Tony Blair and now very much in the process of being implemented by Sir Keir Starmer - is, in my view, an acceptable alternative.

[mattomac]

Ever since Batley and Spen by election last year I don’t think Starmer has put a foot wrong.

I know it’s like shooting fish in an barrel full of fish and zero water but still I’m sure certain leaders would still be behind.

[Youngian]

Ever since Batley and Spen by election last year I don’t think Starmer has put a foot wrong.

I know it’s like shooting fish in an barrel full of fish and zero water but still I’m sure certain leaders would still be behind.

How do the Tories land a punch on Starmer? Boring Keir Vs Funtime Boris isn’t going to fly neither did lawyer Starmer hung around with criminals. The Savile shit was gutter level stuff that blew up in Bozo’s face. Keir’s not playing on Brexit and the Corbyn gang are in exile.