[Malcolm Armsteen]

It seems largely to be Palestine.

Now I get that Israel is an aggressor state, that Palestinians have been treated abysmally**, that there are huge human rights abuses. It's a global disgrace, and Israel gets away with it for a variety of reasons dating back to 1948.

What I don't get is why that is the most important issue to a local politician in Leeds or Guildford (more likely in Guildford).* I don't get why people can't separate the actions of the Israeli government and the ethnicity/religion of people, often in other countries. I don't get why they repeat anti-semitic libels - the only way that will get help to the Palestinians is if we all rise up in hysterical anger and massacre all Jews.

They can't see that rocket attacks are an illegitimate form of political discourse.


*I have had to sit through Labour Party meetings in which earnest elderly gentlewomen rant about our local bin-collection company also have contracts in Jerusalem. Really. She thought it was the most important issue facing us at that time.

**Palestinians are not saints.

[Andy McDandy]

My grandmother used to insist that Arthur Scargill was trained by the KGB, and you could tell this by his hand gestures. Pretty much a right wing version of your Guildford lady's theory.

[Oboogie]

My grandmother used to insist that Arthur Scargill was trained by the KGB, and you could tell this by his hand gestures.

I think your grandmother was being down right disrespectful to the KGB's accountants who, I'm sure, would never have signed off such a frivolous waste of funds.

[Nigredo]

A very dear friend of mine and her flat mate would both go out to bat for Corbyn any day of the week, the latter because of the Palestine stance (which has always confused me because how would Magic Grandad affect any kind of resolution there without being a hated interventionist?) and the former because JC was a decent man brought low by dark forces because he tried to do a socialism.

My friend has been my emotional bedrock for long time but her woeful naivete regards Allotment Jesus has me tearing my hair out at times.

[The Weeping Angel]

For a lot of Corbynites support for the Palestinians is just a cover for their anti-Semitism.

[Cyclist]

Or does their anti-Semitism stem from their blind unthinking support for the Palestinians? ie Palestine good so Israel and anything even remotely connected with it bad.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

The latter, in my experience.

[Crabcakes]

Everything is black and white, even when contradictory. The Blair/Brown years did no good because of Iraq. No one can support Israel because of what the current government do. Starmer is a Tory because he’s not exactly what Corbyn was. All ultra-simplistic because to compromise is to see your opponent as a person, and to admit that not everything they do may be bad. And if you do that, you have to accept not everything your “side” does is good, and consider your own choices. And god forbid any Corbynite has to do that.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Take that Starmer. Strange they missed out "in the next few years", which is not much use to anyone and isn't the issue that McDonald resigned over, this is a bombshell to elitist out of touch Starmer.

[mattomac]

Yet given the choice two years ago an overwhelming majority of the public didn’t vote for Corbyn or any of those that surround him like he is some second coming of Jesus.

[Tubby Isaacs]

That was "Brexit and smears".

Ah have Tribune taken that down. In fairness, their editor had "in a few years" (in his second tweet).

[davidjay]

Sake, for fuck's. These people have absolutely no comprehension either of history or of the populace. Throughout the eighties opinion polls invariably showed a majority in favour of higher public spending and rises in tax to pay for it. And at every election they delivered a massive mandate for cuts in spending and taxes.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Yeah, we found out all about that in 1992, didn't we?

Maybe things have moved on since then, but I'll tell you someone who didn't think they had- Jeremy Corbyn. Manifestos were based on average folk not paying any more money. I think the probably got that bit right (though I don't think you can then say, "never fear, the rich are paying for it all!")

[Tubby Isaacs]

There's a good bit in Alwyn Turner's book about the 90s, where he explains how tax rises in SE England kicked in at not much more than the average wage. Labour duly died on its arse in SE England.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Oh, I see the misleading Tribune tweet is still up.

[The Weeping Angel]

What a surprise

[Malcolm Armsteen]

Sonofabitches brave and gettin' braver.

[mattomac]

Thing is it has no arbitrary stand point, a commitment to the Real Living wage which is just under £10 makes sense but any minimum wage can’t stand still does the £15 stand there for five years or does the party commit to delivering that over five years which would still leave it probably ahead of the Real Living Wage currently set by the foundation.

What is slightly depressing is that my current wage isn’t £15 an hour and yet I’m kind of dubious how this is delivered , I’d love everyone to have higher wages but I think there needs to be a pay off in better working practices, more holiday entitlement and so on (more bank holidays were a shit idea quite frankly as it didn’t improve anything for a lot of people).

Saying that what we could do is fight for a Labour Government that can deliver something instead of this shitty oneupmanship at conferences. After all I was getting a pay rise the first substantial one in 5 years that my Union had agreed on and it’s gone come next April.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Devastating news here. Sir Keir hasn't phoned up the Labour Against the Witchhunt guy.

[mattomac]

Well it was a pathetic attempt to sabotage, I thought disaffiliation had to happen at a conference or by a union vote?

So when did this actually happen? In a bar between the committee of about four? Of course the Bakers Union of 1902 would have found the actions of some of its leadership very odd. Unions were part of the foundation of the Labour movement to put people in power and to change people’s lives not barrack at the sidelines and look smug.