[Abernathy]

Nice extended metaphor here from Fleet Street Fox :

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... 6MI2IIwzro

[Tubby Isaacs]

We mentioned Kashmir a fair bit in the context of Batley and Spen. I think there's a major political problem here. But what's this I read about the Corbyn leadership?

https://labourlist.org/2019/11/labour-c ... a-problem/

Labour conference in September passed a policy motion that was seen to criticise the actions of the Indian government in the Kashmiri conflict. It caused a backlash, with some Indian-heritage groups telling their communities to vote Tory. Ian Lavery, as party chair, subsequently issued a letter clarifying the party’s position: he described Kashmir as a bilateral issue for India and Pakistan to resolve, and confirmed that Labour is opposed to external interference.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Interesting figures here.

We can overdo the "Johnson has parked tanks on Labour's lawn" stuff, for sure, but a couple of percent rise in spending is something a bit different from a Tory Government. How does Labour play that? Blair and Smith did it very well v Major in 1993 and onwards. You've put taxes up and still schools are falling to bits? Time for a change. Better tactics than Labour in 1992 with "we know things are tough, here's some tax rises".

I'm never persuaded by "let's get it all off Google". What will Sir Keir be able to raise that's politically viable?

[Abernathy]

Starmer’s vision, you say? What does he stand for, you ask?

It’s been published.

https://labourlist.org/2021/09/starmer- ... dAYAs9gsxM

https://labourlist.org/wp-content/uploa ... EB-fri.pdf

[Boiler]

Now that I could vote for.

Question is: could the rest of the electorate?

[RedSparrows]

Popped my head into /r/greenandpleasant, a gathering place of 'proper left' (as they'd see themselves) to see the reaction.

Cos Starmer isn't saying 'seize the means of production, now!', he's a neolib.

Good assessment, thanks chaps.

...

[Abernathy]

Yeah, it's crazy. The Fabian Soc pamphlet, good as it genuinely is, means nothing to the trots and cranks still inhabiting the Labour Party - not that I'd even have expected any of them actually to have read it. They've made their minds up about "Keith" as they hilariously call him.

After months of whingeing that "nobody knows what Starmer stands for", he writes extensively about erm, what he stands for, and still gets dismissed by these wankers as "Tory Lite".

They really are a bunch of despicable shits, who have no business being in the Labour Party.

[Nigredo]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 24832.html

Warning; contains interview with Rebecca Wrong-Daily.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I'm not one for political pamphlets at the best of times, and there's got to be a better use of the leader's time than this right now.

I'm not worried about what he stands for. I just want him to get better at politics.

[The Weeping Angel]

Wow you've got him there Ellie.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Yeah, I mean I've not heard politicians say the same thing my entire life.

[Andy McDandy]

Hoggart's law of the ridiculous reverse applies. Who's going to say they support cheating skivers?

[Tubby Isaacs]

Ex Jez speechwriter here doing the same thing. Apparently David Cameron invented the phrase "work hard and do the right thing".

[Abernathy]

And was it not one Tonty Blair who coined the famous Corbyn/Momentum slogan “For the Many, not the Few” - in his revision of clauseIV in 1994 ?

[mattomac]

Wow you've got him there Ellie.

I attended a session delivered by Ellie on framing at one of those Labour events for Open Labour.

Let’s just say as someone who learnt framing and language at University I was gobsmacked how fucking awful it really was.

Another of the Corbyn lot like Owen Jones who think they are actually clever. They sort of remind me of the Trumps and the likes of Kushner.

[Andy McDandy]

I once attended a training course on effective Internet searching, by some chancer. His amazing technique was to type in an entire question, such as "what is the capital of France?" into Google.

He was delivering this to an audience of librarians who took it all in in silence, then went back to work.

That sort of level of awful?

[Boiler]

Well, this'll please the likes of Fenton and his "regular contributors".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58689884

"Labour deputy leader Angela Rayner has indicated that proposed changes to the way the party's leader is elected have been shelved."

"Mish Rahman, a member of the NEC and Momentum's national co-ordinating group, said: "The central measure of Keir Starmer's attack on democracy has comprehensively failed. The electoral college is dead.

"Now to make sure all the other regressive rule changes concocted by the leadership share the same fate.

"From trigger ballot changes to increases in the MP nomination threshold ahead, they all need to go in the bin."

[The Weeping Angel]

In 2019 Corbyn and co wanted to abolish the posistion of deputy leader because they didn't like Tom Watson Mish didn't speak out then if I recall.

[Arrowhead]

I do worry about the quality of advice currently being given to Starmer. Why on earth pick this fight if there was little chance of winning it?

I suppose Starmer may still get through some watered-down changes, which is better than nothing.

[Boiler]

Labour conference: Sir Keir Starmer sets up battle over party reforms

Activist group Momentum called the rule change "an MP veto by the backdoor", adding: "Handing this much power to a Westminster elite is the opposite of democracy".

<fx: bows head, holds in hands>

Is the PLP heading for a re-run of 1983 with this lot?