:sunglasses: 40.6 % :pray: 8.5 % :laughing: 30.2 % 🧥 4.7 % :cry: 12.3 % :🤗 3.8 %
#22623
I’m sure Ipsos Mori had factored in the don’t knows that what’s reduced Labour’s lead, the war bounce hasn’t appeared, both parties sit in an area where a hung parliament is likely on what side does that fall.

A number of factors about the 2019 election, held after two years of a draining 2 years trying to leave the EU with a deal and failing. “Get Brexit done” was a good solid campaign, it ran on the premises of the referendum campaign.

Not sure what the current slogan will be but it seems they will be running an election against a guy who isn’t in the Labour Party a mix of 1997 which turned into a mess and “protect our statues”.

I don’t think a 80 seat majority is possible anyhow, a Cameron one perhaps but I think Labour are in a better position than both those elections as are the Lib Dems.

Labour needed their tally of votes to be better spread and here lies the one thing no one mentions about 2019. It was held in the middle of winter.

Question is do we believe the Tories to be smart and know something we don’t and that isn’t showing up anywhere or is arrogance. This stuff plays to a crowd and lapped up by the usual rubbish but we know It’s pretty easy to get stuff trending especially when a 1000 accounts suddenly appear with the same wording.
#22628
Thing is, I can completely believe Johnson might think he can win another election. But what I can believe a lot more is that he thinks *starting* another election will force all his critics in the party to shut up so he can have a quiet life. It’s doing exactly what he always does - surviving today and dealing with tomorrow when he gets there.

We’re all thinking there’s some grand scheme or other here, but what if maybe it’s just the exact same lazy, self-centred shit as always?
mattomac, Watchman, Arrowhead and 3 others liked this
#22632
Boiler wrote: Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:43 am The public has fallen for lazy three word slogans since 2019. I see nothing has changed.

No More Lockdowns
Got Brexit Done
War On Woke
Heat Our Homes

... and the beat goes on...
Have they? Of those, I only know get/got brexit done. War on woke is what they tried to get going but it repeatedly backfired. No more lockdowns was an appeal to Tory backbenchers, and heat our homes is far too close to what Insulate Britain are demanding.

Besides, I think “got brexit done” is going to become a millstone around their necks. Yes, they got it done - but so badly it has ruined the economy. A Labour campaign with pictures of Johnson’s gurning face and “got brexit done badly” (with badly in a different colour) could work very well. Not denying or trying to reverse, but pointing out the sheer incompetence and laziness of the architect.
#22633
I note that this morning there's reports that he wants to go to Kyiv.

No he doesn't. When foreign leaders do go into a war zone, you only find out about it after the event when they're halfway home, well out of danger. May, Cameron, Obama, even Trump, all made unannounced trips to Afghanistan. To trumpet that they were going beforehand would have raised all manner of security concerns.

And that's why this has been leaked. The security services will pull the idea, and Johnson can say "Well, I wanted to go, but I was told I couldn't" - that way, the gullible can say "Good old Boris, he's so brave", neatly overlooking the fact that if he'd gone after publicising the fact, he'd have put those who travelled with him in danger, all for the sake of a photo opportunity.
Last edited by The All New KevS on Mon Mar 21, 2022 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Spoonman liked this
#22634
The problem with the "war on woke" is summed up in Will Self's observation that not everyone who voted for Brexit was a racist, but all the racists voted for Brexit.

Nobody, except the out and out fash, likes to think of themselves as a horrible person. So, while people are happy to lap up "PCGoooornmaaad" stuff in the papers, and you're not allowed to call them manholes any more and so on, when they encounter a person who has been either directly or indirectly discriminated against, they tend to be more understanding and empathetic, and acknowledge that something needs fixing.

Similarly, with refugees, we're seeing many of the outlets and voices that have been stridently shouting "send 'em back" for years suddenly full of compassion for their fellow humans. While some have said that this highlights endemic racism, I'm in two minds. I think that at least in western Europe, we still tend to see places such as the middle east and Africa as far away and exotic. Seeing bombed out apartments and queues of refugees carrying luggage not unlike our own, driving cars we might have parked outside our houses, tweeting in real time rather than being presented to us through the filters of a translator and a condescending journalist, it makes it all more real and pertinent.

So, "war on woke" only really works in the abstract. When you see pictures of police officers standing guard over a bronze statue on a granite plinth, while actual human beings are getting the shit kicked out of them for the "crime" of wanting a police force they can trust (and it's not hippies or anarchists, but women in smart clothes getting kicked), unless you're a dyed in the wool EDLer (coincidentally just one letter removed from idler), you're likely to admit that it's a wee bit ridiculous. A minute clapping an anti-racism message before kick off isn't any sort of hardship. Just as jokes are never funny when read out in court, insults are always a bit different when delivered in person.
RedSparrows, Nigredo, Bones McCoy and 1 others liked this
#22635
The All New KevS wrote: Mon Mar 21, 2022 9:10 am I note that this morning there's reports that he wants to go to Kyiv.

No he doesn't. When foreign leaders do go into a war zone, you only find out about it after the event when they're halfway home, well out of danger. May, Cameron, Obama, even Trump, all made unannounced trips to Afghanistan. To trumpet that they were going beforehand would have raised all manner of security concerns.

And that's why this has been leaked. The security services will pull the idea, and Johnson can say "Well, I wanted to go, but I was told I couldn't" - that way, the gullible can say "Good old Boris, he's so brave", neatly overlooking the fact that if he'd gone after publicising the fact, he'd have put those who travelled with him in danger, all for the sake of a photo opportunity.
Please, please let them call his bluff and say “yep, go right ahead”.
#22636
I enjoyed Andy's analysis of the war on woke.
I enjoyed it enough to add a little. (Edit: Rather a lot).

We've seen recent attempts to kickstart it fail hard.
The most recent example being several conservative columnists attempting to "form a square around the Dickster" and launch a counter charge at Sadiq Khan.
This stuff needs a grain of truth to get the snowball rolling, and these columns lacked that: A visibly failing commissioner and cheap shots exaggerating the role of the Mayor.

Kier Starmer's a clever speaker, and I'm sure he has everything from Inappropriate peerages, piss ups on the eve of royal funerals, dodgy "VIP" PPE contracts, rubbing shoulders with oligarchs banked away for later use.

Where the Conservatives have a massive advantage is in share of the print media.
In the past they have used this to re-write recent history: For example, few accounts of the Falklands reference proceeding defence cuts.
You may say that print media is dying, and its circulation is falling, but it still sets the talking points for broadcast news programmes - not to mention sustaining the columnists on speed dial from those programmes.
It's influence will persist long after its circulation falls to insignificance.

Meanwhile digital and social media allow that re-writing of history to happen far more quickly.
Consider the week long rewriting of Hillsborough disaster with the Sun and South Yorks Police in cahoots.
Compare with the misinformation following the De Menezes shooting (Less than half a day).

Our side needs a layer of online activism to sit on twitter and call out the 1000 accounts of "Dave BunchOfNumbers" and the MPs and Ministers who echo them.
A straight, this is not what happened: Are you Putin or someting? ought to do the job.
We also need the heavier contributions, whether Gary Lineakar or Mary Beard to respond to raw misinformation and point out when and where it occurs (and by whom).


It is exhausiting, and out team will be mostly amateurs (with all the risks of poor coordination that entails).
They will be playing against a team led by full-time professionals with lovely desks and generous wingnut welfare salaries.

I hope our team can project as more genuine examples of the British experience than the opposing cronies like Staines, Hannan and Delingpole.
We can take a lesson from them, and not be shy about monstering them for their previous bad calls (Putin, Refugees ..) and their dodgy connections.
Last edited by Bones McCoy on Mon Mar 21, 2022 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Watchman, Samanfur, Andy McDandy and 2 others liked this
#22641
This is one issue that Johnson will desperately want to go away - especially with the situation in Ukraine having a lot of similarities. Leaving military translators and embassy staff in favour of some dogs isn’t something he can disguise with woke arguments or brexit. It’s straightforward abuse of power because his wife asked him to (and I suspect Cummings will be sure to twist the knife on this one if there’s a chance to get back at Carrie).

I’m sure he’ll be throwing someone under a bus shortly, but it looks like at least 2 people have been directly called out for lying. Question is do they take the hit for him or do they spill the beans on who told them to lie.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... n-mps-told
Oboogie liked this
#22642
“Terribly sorry I shat the bed” says man who deliberately ate laxatives all day. “It seemed like a jolly jape, but then no one laughed and everyone complained about the awful smell…”

Edit: does show how badly he’s advised and/or how arrogant he’s got though, given he was still sending out ministers to defend this earlier today. A few such fuck-ups mid election campaign and he’ll need more than a fridge to hide in.

Oboogie liked this
#22644
And then his spokesman says he never was sorry at all. So there you have it, he's sorry, he's not, he was making a fair comparison, he never meant to compare us with Ukraine. Whatever position he finally decides to take, he's both covered and contradicted it.

How can anyone work for this excuse and maintain any sense of self-respect?
Oboogie liked this
#22647
Sounds bad

Boris Johnson is facing a possible police interview over lockdown breaches in Downing Street as the Metropolitan police said they intended to start questioning witnesses after sending out questionnaires to more than 100 people.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... -witnesses

Well, this *is* a surprise

But the police statement – issued two months since inquiries began – suggests officers have not yet found breaches that meet the evidentiary threshold for fixed-penalty notices to be issued without further interviews. No FPNs have been issued so far, the force said.
Pass the bucket of whitewash, vicar.
#22649
Andy McDandy wrote: Mon Mar 21, 2022 3:02 pm And then his spokesman says he never was sorry at all. So there you have it, he's sorry, he's not, he was making a fair comparison, he never meant to compare us with Ukraine. Whatever position he finally decides to take, he's both covered and contradicted it.

How can anyone work for this excuse and maintain any sense of self-respect?
When they know that Johnson is the only leader who'll give them a cabinet post, self-respect is an expensive luxury these no-marks cannot afford.
#22653
Cyclist wrote:Sounds bad

Boris Johnson is facing a possible police interview over lockdown breaches in Downing Street as the Metropolitan police said they intended to start questioning witnesses after sending out questionnaires to more than 100 people.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... -witnesses

Well, this *is* a surprise

But the police statement – issued two months since inquiries began – suggests officers have not yet found breaches that meet the evidentiary threshold for fixed-penalty notices to be issued without further interviews. No FPNs have been issued so far, the force said.
Pass the bucket of whitewash, vicar.
Did anyone really think that the police "investigation" would really amount to anything? Honestly?
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