:sunglasses: 30 % :pray: 3.3 % :laughing: 26.7 % :cry: 26.7 % :🤗 10 % :poo: 3.3 %
#19452
kreuzberger wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:42 pm My hatred for those who voted for Johnson and for Brexit knows absolutely no bounds. However, that is simply not going to affect the change which is necessary. "Smug" is not a political position which is in any way sustainable or progressive.

I have mooted on here before that a truth and reconciliation commission will be needed to heal these festering wounds.

Now, I doubt that the country will have a self-awareness to accept that this is the only way forward. So, some kind of national conversation and the reset of the countrywide debate will be necessary. Otherwise. the descent into a very dark place is as good as guaranteed.
Truth and Reconciliation commission, can we please get some fucking proportion and perspective
Last edited by The Weeping Angel on Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#19453
You know those front pages earlier this week saying that we needed to get a sense of perspective, and people pointed out that was a bit rich coming from the Mail and Express?

Just sayin'. ;)
#19456
By a get a sense of proportion and perspective I mean this. The Boris Johnson governemnt is shit, the Tories are shit I want them out, but we're not living on the verge of a fascist takeover, we're not living in a failed state and the partying in 10 Downing Street doesn't need a truth and reconcilation commission.
#19458
The Weeping Angel wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:40 pm By a get a sense of proportion and perspective I mean this. The Boris Johnson governemnt is shit, the Tories are shit I want them out, but we're not living on the verge of a fascist takeover, we're not living in a failed state and the partying in 10 Downing Street doesn't need a truth and reconcilation commission.
Have a look at the 14 characteristics of fascism and count off how many of them this government and its supporters are in favour of.
Oboogie, Dalem Lake liked this
#19460
For ease I’ve copied below
Okay de Piffle isn’t up there with those named, however, if you don’t recognise any of these in relation to our current state…..


The 14 Characteristics of Fascism
by Lawrence Britt
Spring 2003
Free Inquiry magazine


Political scientist Dr. Lawrence Britt recently wrote an article about fascism ("Fascism Anyone?," Free Inquiry, Spring 2003, page 20). Studying the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), Dr. Britt found they all had 14 elements in common. He calls these the identifying characteristics of fascism. The excerpt is in accordance with the magazine's policy.

The 14 characteristics are:

Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

Supremacy of the Military
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

Rampant Sexism
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

Controlled Mass Media
Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

Obsession with National Security
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

Religion and Government are Intertwined
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

Corporate Power is Protected
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

Labor Power is Suppressed
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed .

Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

Fraudulent Elections
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
kreuzberger, Oboogie liked this
#19461
The Weeping Angel wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:40 pm ... we're not living in a failed state ...
This isn't about parties.

This is about;
London being the money laundromat for despots and tyrants the world over,
The Panama Papers and opaque offshore financial structures.
The suspected contents of the Russia Report,
The illegally procured Brexit vote and every stage of its implementation,
The wholesale destruction of the social, industrial, and soon the legal and political frameworks of the country,
The syphoning off of vast, unimaginable sums of money under the cover of Covid,

...and that's before we get to Pen's puppies, the myriad machinations of the Met, and, last and probably least, cakes, cocaine, and Cabernet fucking Sauvignon.

It's about new depths being plumbed while you wait.
Youngian, Cyclist, davidjay and 4 others liked this
#19467
London being the money laundromat for despots and tyrants the world over,
That's being a problem going back to the 2000s.
The Panama Papers and opaque offshore financial structures.
What has that got to do with Johnson?
The suspected contents of the Russia Report,
The illegally procured Brexit vote and every stage of its implementation,
Well I'd like to know how it was illegally procured but I've learned not to take the ravings of the likes of Cadwallader seriously.
The wholesale destruction of the social, industrial, and soon the legal and political frameworks of the country,
You'll have to be more specific.
The syphoning off of vast, unimaginable sums of money under the cover of Covid,
Yes that should be looked into.
#19479
Supremacy of the Military
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... 78825?111=

I guess this one doesn't apply then.
#19480
There is a difference between maintaining armed forces at a level where they are "fit for purpose", and fetishising them. Our armed forces, and the civil servants who support them, have been drastically cut at least four times in the 30 years that I have worked for the MOD. The government's latest proposed cuts will pare them to the bone. Any sensible politician would oppose these cuts on the grounds that our armed forces would be left too small to be effective if the need to use them arose. Starmer is merely working in the national interest. Is this wrong of him?

The armed forces are like any other form of insurance - you pay the premiums while hoping you'll never have to use it.
Oboogie, Watchman, Samanfur and 1 others liked this
#19484
davidjay wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:07 pm You'd have to be a bit daft, or blinkered, not to have noticed the fetishisation of the military this country has indulged in for the past couple of decades. Example One - Remembrance Sunday past and present. Compare and contrast.
See also the use of the army in hospitals, and the suggestions that squaddies would make excellent teachers to, umm, teach respect to the younger generation. Plus we need the army to sort out No 10. I'd say that's pretty definite fetishisation.
Oboogie liked this
#19486
Cyclist wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:47 pm There is a difference between maintaining armed forces at a level where they are "fit for purpose", and fetishising them. Our armed forces, and the civil servants who support them, have been drastically cut at least four times in the 30 years that I have worked for the MOD. The government's latest proposed cuts will pare them to the bone. Any sensible politician would oppose these cuts on the grounds that our armed forces would be left too small to be effective if the need to use them arose. Starmer is merely working in the national interest. Is this wrong of him?

The armed forces are like any other form of insurance - you pay the premiums while hoping you'll never have to use it.
Yes but the point clearly states being given disproportionite funding since our armed forces are being cut and incidentally I oppose these cuts. Then does this point or not. The fetishization of the military started back in the late 2000s and was a bottom up rather than top down, how much does that have to do with cultural factors than the Tories?
#19487
Malcolm Armsteen wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:19 pm See also the use of the army in hospitals
Until the new hospital was built here, we had two separate NHS hospitals in town - the newer one was actually a military hospital but open to the public. So it wasn't unusual to see staff in military uniforms rather than NHS - the most striking of which were Navy nurses who at the time (late 1980s/early 1990s) still wore the traditional nurses uniform that looked like you were back in the 60s - you half expected Hattie Jacques to appear. You'd often see doctors with suspiciously shiny shoes too.

The new Peterborough City Hospital was an MDHU* until 2014 and still employs ex-service personnel as a result.

(Ministry of Defence Hospital Unit)
#19489
The Weeping Angel wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 7:59 pm
London being the money laundromat for despots and tyrants the world over,
That's being a problem going back to the 2000s.
The Panama Papers and opaque offshore financial structures.
What has that got to do with Johnson?
The suspected contents of the Russia Report,
The illegally procured Brexit vote and every stage of its implementation,
Well I'd like to know how it was illegally procured but I've learned not to take the ravings of the likes of Cadwallader seriously.
The wholesale destruction of the social, industrial, and soon the legal and political frameworks of the country,
You'll have to be more specific.
The syphoning off of vast, unimaginable sums of money under the cover of Covid,
Yes that should be looked into.
Honest debate dies when one party plays a Govian "I don't recognise that".
Oboogie liked this
#19490
Cyclist wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:47 pm There is a difference between maintaining armed forces at a level where they are "fit for purpose", and fetishising them. Our armed forces, and the civil servants who support them, have been drastically cut at least four times in the 30 years that I have worked for the MOD. The government's latest proposed cuts will pare them to the bone. Any sensible politician would oppose these cuts on the grounds that our armed forces would be left too small to be effective if the need to use them arose. Starmer is merely working in the national interest. Is this wrong of him?

The armed forces are like any other form of insurance - you pay the premiums while hoping you'll never have to use it.
But while we can't maintain an army to fit inside Wembley stadium: Fit for Purpose.
We can maintain stables for 600 military horses both inside and outside London: Fetishization.
#19540
Kinda makes you proud to be living in a rich G7 country...

A woman who slept in a bus stop with her baby is among an increasing number of people needing help due to the lack of a welfare safety net, a charity said.

The Re:store charity's director Anya Willis said there was a "real increase" in the number of people needing help.

She said Covid-19 had had a significant impact on those who had no recourse to public funds (NRPF).

The Home Office said safeguards existed to ensure vulnerable migrants got help.

NRPF is a condition attached to some migrants' right to remain in the UK.

It prevents them receiving most government-funded benefits, including child benefit, child tax credits, council tax benefit and disability living allowance.

There are an estimated 1.4 million migrants to the UK from outside the EU who have visas subject to the rule, according to the University of Oxford's Migration Observatory...


..."Over the past two years, we've had more requests for support from people who would not be eligible for welfare support or benefits due to their immigration status.

"The biggest problem with the impact of Covid is there is no welfare system to fill in the gaps."...


...One woman who visited Re:store said she fell on hard times after suffering domestic abuse.

She said she had confided in a social worker after her controlling partner did not let her see a health visitor with her six-month-old son.

"We were thrown out the house the very day I went there," she said. "I went to the council, but they couldn't help.

"We were left alone in the town centre. I spent two days at a bus stop with my son."

She was eventually directed to the Red Cross and Re:store.

"They asked me how do I survive?" she said. "I said it was only the church giving me food."

It took four months before she gained recourse to public funds...


...A second woman said she could not continue to work during the pandemic lockdown as she was unable to get a childminder.

The single mother, whose son was two years old at the time, had been working as an agency carer.

"I had to stop work and stay at home," she said. "I was supposed to renew my rent but I couldn't."

She was threatened with eviction, but a £120-per-month Red Cross hardship fund saw her through for three months before she got recourse to public funds.

"Without charity, I would have been on the streets," she said...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-n ... e-59700131

And this is just Northampton. How are the other 1.4 million people with no recourse to public funds doing?

Oh, silly me. They're not people - they're "economic migrants".
#20579
Tories declare war on eagles in Dorset. Send ‘em back along with black kids selling drugs.
A Conservative MP who said eagles are not welcome in his constituency had his election campaign funded by a shooting estate, the Guardian can reveal.

The West Dorset MP, Chris Loder, caused outrage when he seemed to imply police should not be prioritising the investigation of the recent death of an endangered white-tailed eagle, found dead on an estate in his constituency.

After police confirmed there was a multi-agency investigation into the death of the eagle, including a toxicology report, Loder said: “Dorset is not the place for eagles to be reintroduced. I’m not challenging government for more money for Dorset so it goes on this.” He added that officers should be focusing on crimes such as those involving county lines gangs instead. https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... arwhmCH4Ck
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