[Samanfur]

It's a self-perpetuating problem, given that it seems to be tolerated because it's football.

I'm fed up of seeing the people who carry on like this, and anyone to do with football violence described as "normally law-abiding", as if they seemingly have a switch that flicks when someone puts them near a football match.

You're either a law-abiding citizen, or you're not. People who commit these crimes aren't, and the fact that it's related to a game doesn't change that.

We need to stop infantilising these idiots, simply because football is somehow seen by people with influence as some sort of sacrosanct national virility test.

[Youngian]

I'm fed up of seeing the people who carry on this, and anyone to do with football violence described as "normally law-abiding", as if seemingly have a switch that flicks when someone puts them near a football match.

Everyone understands economically motivated law breaking but home owning hooligans on £30K with a wife and kids putting their arse on the line is a man bites dog story. Their motivation to risk jail sentences is freakish and makes good copy.

[Andy McDandy]

When people say that it's because football's a working class sport and an outlet for frustration or whatever, just consider this: how many rugby hooligans or riots have there been in south Wales? Yes, I'm sure there have been a few punch-ups outside the Red Dragon over time, but even in the fantastically tribal and very working class valleys, you've never had the Abertillery Firm taking on the Newport Under 5s.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

So you are saying that socially inadequate men with a tendency to violence and disorder and impulsive personalities find a place where they can express those proclivities because that place is fetishised as (as Sam puts it) into some sort of virility test and treated as a special case ?

Can't argue with that.

[Andy McDandy]

I'd add emotionally stunted and frighteningly immature, but yes.

On the subject of why football, I'm going to take a guess that it's the simplicity of the game that's partly at play here. Yes, I know that it's actually very tactical and there's a huge amount of skill involved, but the basics (boot ball into gap at end of pitch and win a point) are, compared to pretty much any other team sport you care to name, very basic. Part of its universal appeal. No fancy kit, no complex set-up.

As for hooliganism, I'd say it was similar to the "I'd rather be in the pub" mentality. Fourteen year-olds who have just discovered beer and tits. Abdication of responsibility and a sense of belonging thrown in for good measure.

[Youngian]

When people say that it's because football's a working class sport and an outlet for frustration or whatever, just consider this: how many rugby hooligans or riots have there been in south Wales?

North West rugby league supporters seem a chilled bunch as well.
Witnessed some punch ups at the races fuelled by booze and coke. Cut off their goolies, it’s the only solution.

[mattomac]

I'd add emotionally stunted and frighteningly immature, but yes.

On the subject of why football, I'm going to take a guess that it's the simplicity of the game that's partly at play here. Yes, I know that it's actually very tactical and there's a huge amount of skill involved, but the basics (boot ball into gap at end of pitch and win a point) are, compared to pretty much any other team sport you care to name, very basic. Part of its universal appeal. No fancy kit, no complex set-up.

As for hooliganism, I'd say it was similar to the "I'd rather be in the pub" mentality. Fourteen year-olds who have just discovered beer and tits. Abdication of responsibility and a sense of belonging thrown in for good measure.

A lot of “football fans” actually seem to hate the game I’ve noticed. They will go full on the rivalry and so on played up amply by the media but if you mentioned watching a game without their team they couldn’t run from it quick enough.

[slilley]

When people say that it's because football's a working class sport and an outlet for frustration or whatever, just consider this: how many rugby hooligans or riots have there been in south Wales?

North West rugby league supporters seem a chilled bunch as well.
Witnessed some punch ups at the races fuelled by booze and coke. Cut off their goolies, it’s the only solution.

As a Rugby League from the south east of England, I have always found my northern counterparts a most friendly bunch. Made the mistake one of ending up watching Harlequins RL as they were then, complete with club shirt, in what was the home end at The Willows Salford. Quins won with a late try. Never had a moments bother from them. I would add that Rugby League had the Magic Weekend with all that weekend’s Super League matches played in one stadium and fans watching all 6 matches, with usually no bother and everyone mixed together says something as well.

[RedSparrows]

I'd add emotionally stunted and frighteningly immature, but yes.

On the subject of why football, I'm going to take a guess that it's the simplicity of the game that's partly at play here. Yes, I know that it's actually very tactical and there's a huge amount of skill involved, but the basics (boot ball into gap at end of pitch and win a point) are, compared to pretty much any other team sport you care to name, very basic. Part of its universal appeal. No fancy kit, no complex set-up.

As for hooliganism, I'd say it was similar to the "I'd rather be in the pub" mentality. Fourteen year-olds who have just discovered beer and tits. Abdication of responsibility and a sense of belonging thrown in for good measure.

A lot of “football fans” actually seem to hate the game I’ve noticed. They will go full on the rivalry and so on played up amply by the media but if you mentioned watching a game without their team they couldn’t run from it quick enough.

A small aside, but there's a curious tendency of football fans to caveat their opinions with their club allegiance. As though the latter MUST or SHOULD have a determining impact on the former.

E.g.

'I think Man Utd deserved the win, and I'm speaking as a Liverpool fan'. As if the default is tribal bollocks, not 'i'm allowed to reflect on the world in a way that leads to conclusions that don't favour my club, fancy that'.

[davidjay]

I find that it's the new breed of supporters who are more tribal and allow their team to define their whole identity.

[Rosvanian]

I find that it's the new breed of supporters who are more tribal and allow their team to define their whole identity.

I would describe myself as an observer of football these days and I find the tribal fan whose identity is totally wrapped up in their team, utterly fascinating to observe. That's why I can't stop reading The Mag where Newcastle fans have recently been piling in to Gareth Southgate for not playing Anthony Gordon. To the people on The Mag, this was as insult to them personally. The irony being of course, that Gordon couldn't be more of a Scouser if he tried.

[Watchman]

I find that it's the new breed of supporters who are more tribal and allow their team to define their whole identity.

“New breed” Celtic and Rangers say hold my beer”

[Nigredo]

[Philip Marlow]

Not only is the mayor a terrorist, he also hates cars. Is there no limit to his evil?

[Andy McDandy]

In a different age, Mayor Johnson makes Oxford Street a friendly place for families by pedestrianising it.

[Philip Marlow]

This will of course affect me not at all, since I don’t drive and rarely find myself on Oxford Street unless I absolutely have to be.

I suppose doing away with cars will at least leave more room to be mown down by inattentive tourists instead.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Always been a sceptic of this, because I don't see where the buses can be rerouted to. But I suppose Crossrail has provided two extra large stations, which makes it more viable to take some buses out, but that's not great for people of limited mobility.

[Youngian]

Britain appears to be the only place in Europe where metropolitan pedestrianisation is treated as some kind of impossiblist utopian dream.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

Looks like a good idea to me.

[Philip Marlow]

Britain appears to be the only place in Europe where metropolitan pedestrianisation is treated as some kind of impossiblist utopian dream.

If I were in the business of asking for the moon I would dearly love a pedestrianised Soho.