[BBN]

But if Labour had adopted the approach that Corbyn apparently wanted, which was to support Brexit (and not appease its Home Counties middle-class Remainer element), would those Red Wall seats have been lost?

I am sadly of the belief that whilst Starmer remains in post, the "Red Wall" seats will not return to Labour as he's seen as "the Brexit Traitor" by them.

So Labour should instead have sacrificed that middle-class urban element and lost seats by the bucketload in places like London, Bristol, Manchester, Brighton, Liverpool etc. instead? Do they somehow count less?

Labour was doomed the moment Johnson got his deal. It was then an absolutely stupid decision verging on reckless to then give him an election when they did not need to. There was no way Johnson could have called an election at the end of 2019 (other than whipping a vote of no confidence in himself, which would have been such a mad thing to do and he'd never have done it with his ego) without tacit support from Labour and the Lib Dems, but both Corbyn and Swinson were mad enough to think such a move actually benefitted them in some way and thus here we are. Of course much of Corbyn's assumption was that what happened in 2017 would happen again, which was patently absurd to anyone who wasn't blinded by their red-tinted spectacles.

Which is part 1 of my occasional new series "Why the 2017 General Election was the worst thing to happen to this country in many years".

[Crabcakes]

But if Labour had adopted the approach that Corbyn apparently wanted, which was to support Brexit (and not appease its Home Counties middle-class Remainer element), would those Red Wall seats have been lost?

I am sadly of the belief that whilst Starmer remains in post, the "Red Wall" seats will not return to Labour as he's seen as "the Brexit Traitor" by them.

Others have already made fair points, but yes - he would have lost them regardless. He failed to make a case for remain because he didn't really want to remain, failed to make any case for why his version of leave would have been any better or what he'd do and failed to explain why what the Tories was offering was a pack of lies that would leave the very people who they'd convinced the EU was to blame for their woes worse off. Mr Lukewarm did nothing about anything because he wanted people to be furious about things they simply didn't care about instead, and just vote him in because some kids sang "Oh. Jeremy Corbyn" at Glastonbury and he thought it was genuine affection and not a meme.

As for the "brexit traitor" line - still 3 years to the next GE and we've already had an NI hike that hits the least well paid the most to pay for something we apparently should have had 350 million a week for knocking about. Shelves are noticeably gappy. Christmas deliveries are by no means guaranteed while the Tories remain stubbornly unwilling to even temporarily relax visa rules for drivers. The treatment of the Afghan vets and the disorganisation will have been noted. And that October firebreak lockdown rumour is out there because the idea needs floating now so people slowly come to terms with it, because it's very likely to happen. As this goes on, more and more people are going to realise they were sold an absolute lie. They will be out of work, out of pocket, and have nothing to buy even if they were well off. They can think what they like about Starmer - the question really is, how much will Johnson's stock have fallen by then? And if he's not in charge, the alternatives are getting very thin on the ground: Raab has fucked up. Hancock has gone. Sunak's popularity has fallen. Gove has gone off the rails. Patel is cruel and stupid and shows it every time she has to appear in public.

[Boiler]

I agree that Labour really did itself no favours in 2019, having gained the perception that it had abandoned the "working class" and what their problems were (even if it was a misplaced "forrins nicking our jobs") and yes, it had apparently become a party for the "Metropolitan Elite Chattering Classes" who knew how to pronounce "quinoa" properly and cared more about Nicaragua than the homeless bloke outside M&S.

But don't underestimate the British Electorate's capacity to be swayed by a few slogans - and reminding them of their stupidity in believing the number on the side of a bus will backfire. Most already believe the increase in NI will be wasted and just like America, we now hear "why should I graft all my life and get nothing whilst the wasters get care for free?"

I went into town today - now a rare occurrence - to buy a new coat for winter. The M&S in the shopping centre seems to have hidden its bare shelves by filling them with cases of alcohol of many varieties, unless this is" stock early for Christmas"...

[davidjay]

Elections are often won by slogans. Labour Isn't Working; Labour's Tax Bombshell; Education, Education, Education; Get Brexit Done. Even For The Many... gave a moral victory.

But the trouble is that elections are also won by personalities and lies. One of Corbyn's many legacies is that not only did he do nothing to dissuade the metropolitan elite jibe, he also allowed attacks to be made on every Labour politician. Keir Starmer is a peedo appeaser, Jess Philips is a common egotist, Lisa Nandy a bit dim and Angela Rayner a chav from the underclass. And that strikes a chord with the electorate more than being worse off and living in a banana republic without even any bananas.

[mattomac]

I thought elections were lost by the governments not won by oppositions and if I’m honest this tax rise isn’t actually a very good idea at the very time that inflation outstrips wages, any paltry wage rise will be gobbled up by this and you are expecting people to return to the “old normal”.

I feel The Vaccine factor is really the only thing that kept this lot at the top end of popular if truth be told, they were struggling this time last year and that was before about 50 lockdowns and the complete mess at Christmas.

And why do I feel that, because I doubt the performance in Wales was possible without the way they delivered the Vaccine, I was told that many expected a collapse from my old friends over there and yet it was the joint best performance by Welsh Labour.

Guess we will see but they need something better than what you’ve said above, the SNP pocket thing worked and “let’s get it done” when fatigue was setting in was no surprise.

But Starmer is a peado lover might sit well on Boiler’s “other side of the fence” but shit like that doesn’t really much make an impact. It’s the past, your message has to be about the future. Whether that’s a fear for the future, something you want to achieve or even something positive.

[Cyclist]

People's Assembly email just in. Looking at their list of speakers I think I might give this one a miss.

All Roads Lead to Manchester!

NATIONAL DEMONSTRATION
Sunday 3rd October
Assemble at 12pm, Oxford Rd, next to Whitworth Park, M14 4PW


+ Festival of Resistance to Protest The Tory Party Conference

#UnitedAgainstTheTories


Under 3 weeks to go now until we Take Back Manchester once again for the National Demonstration, 3/10/21 and Festival of Resistance, 2-5/10/21. Manchester will be a hotbed of resistance and definitely the place to be. We will bring together a range of progressive left wing campaigners, campaigns, trade unions and protesters from across the movements. Not only that, but we'll have great national speakers at the demonstration and events too including:

We have lots of great speakers coming for the National Demonstration and Festival of Resistance events. For instance, Jeremy Corbyn, Rob Delaney, Laura Pidcock, Barry Gardiner, Angela Raynor, Steve Turner, , Maxine Peake, Shami Chakrabarti, trade union and campaign leaders and many more.
The Tories are attacking us from all sides and want us divided and weakened. Let's not only show them we are strong and united against their social, economic, environmental and international injustices but we are are organising and fighting back.





So why not JOIN US - and bring friends and family! See our website for a media pack with downloadable leaflets, graphics and information.



The Festival of Resistance
Saturday 2-5th October
Manchester


The Festival of Resistance will be from from 2-5th Oct to coincide with the Tory conference. Unless otherwise stated, the events will be in a marquee in Piccadilly Gardens, Manchester City Centre.

Who in their right mind would want to spend days listening to that shower?

National Demonstration and Festival of Resistance? What are they on?

Oh, and they're in breach of current data regulations. Because I never responded to any of their emails I received one that said if I don't respond to this one they'll remove my email address from their database. Good, I thought. I won't have to see any more Corbyn/Momentumite bollocks. That was 14 months ago and I'm still getting their crap.

[Boiler]

I know someone who felt so strongly about what he felt were GDPR violations by the Party (much the same stuff as you) that he resigned from it after many years; in itself a process that is pretty damned difficult - almost "Hotel California" in fact...

[Crabcakes]

It must genuinely be pretty boring to go to these events with the same speakers at more or less all of them. And of course Jez always gets top billing now, and he's been doing the exact same material for years.

Still, Status Quo did alright, so I suppose some people just like to not be challenged and some "performers" like an audience they know will always clap and cheer.

[kreuzberger]

Quite; all the spontaneity of a pantomime but without the gravitas.

When I was a lad, many years ago, at least these bashes always had a few decent bands on. Aswad and the Clash, to name but two.

[Andy McDandy]

Who is "Angela Raynor"?

[Boiler]

One of my younger colleagues thought that "Piers Corbyn" was an amalgamation of Piers Morgan and Jeremy Corbyn.

I shuddered.

[Abernathy]

One of my younger colleagues thought that "Piers Corbyn" was an amalgamation of Piers Morgan and Jeremy Corbyn.

I shuddered.

Well I suppose that in a way, he is.

[mattomac]

Barry Gardiner and Laura Pidock…

It’s always good to be reminded of the past for a good chuckle.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Jeremy Corbyn has drawn a crowd of hundreds in a big tent at the World Transformed festival outside Labour conference. Delegates whooped as he laid into main conference - and by implication Keir Starmer - for debating “unnecessary ... rule changes” instead of focussing on the climate emergency.

The Corbynite Left famously never bother with rule changes for internal elections.

[The Weeping Angel]

Jeremy Corbyn has drawn a crowd of hundreds in a big tent at the World Transformed festival outside Labour conference. Delegates whooped as he laid into main conference - and by implication Keir Starmer - for debating “unnecessary ... rule changes” instead of focussing on the climate emergency.

The Corbynite Left famously never bother with rule changes for internal elections.

When I saw John McDonnell being interviewed on Channel 4 yesterday, the journalist never bought that up for some reason.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

It seems that Corbyn Maximus has disrupted and heckled a meeting featuring Corbyn Minimus...

https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/p ... 1632680601

But fear not, the Glastonbury Chapter of Hell's Socialists were there to protect the absolute boy.

Piers Corbyn disrupted a climate emergency debate on the fringes of the Labour conference on Sunday, which featured his brother Jeremy Corbyn as a star panellist.
The 74-year-old began heckling when the panel’s chair invited questions from younger attendees and audience members of colour.
Another panelist shot back at Piers and his fellow hecklers to rapturous applause: “You need to check what level of entitlement you have..You need to sit down and show some goddamn respect.”
The former Labour leader’s older brother was also seen handing out leaflets entitled “Stop Jabbing Children” and “Man-Made Climate Change Does Not Exist!”.

[Crabcakes]

It seems that Corbyn Maximus has disrupted and heckled a meeting featuring Corbyn Minimus...

https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/p ... 1632680601

But fear not, the Glastonbury Chapter of Hell's Socialists were there to protect the absolute boy.

Piers Corbyn disrupted a climate emergency debate on the fringes of the Labour conference on Sunday, which featured his brother Jeremy Corbyn as a star panellist.
The 74-year-old began heckling when the panel’s chair invited questions from younger attendees and audience members of colour.
Another panelist shot back at Piers and his fellow hecklers to rapturous applause: “You need to check what level of entitlement you have..You need to sit down and show some goddamn respect.”
The former Labour leader’s older brother was also seen handing out leaflets entitled “Stop Jabbing Children” and “Man-Made Climate Change Does Not Exist!”.

Ah yes, that special form of respect where young people and/or people of colour are given a special opportunity to ask an old, rich, bigot-enabling white man what they should do.

[mattomac]

Sorry but the head needs cutting … Labour won’t return while this lot hang around like a bad smell.

It would be fine if their policies, their over promising, their lack of contrition hadn’t led to a 80 seat majority.

Seriously….

[Tubby Isaacs]

Jez back in his comfort zone leading the a rebellion from the floor v Western allies cooperating on defence.

[mattomac]

Must be very easy being a politician who just makes stuff up and gets cheers.

Him and Johnson are very alike.