:laughing: 100 %
By Youngian
#73243
Reeves added that the new law would deliver economic stability and bolster market confidence.

Maybe but you can just implement stable policies to bolster market confidence. Or monkey around circumventing these stern guidelines as crafty Eurozone finance ministers do.
Won’t do any harm as Reeves has one arm tied behind her back by keeping the country severed from the SM.
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By Malcolm Armsteen
#73513
And the awkward squad has shown itself...

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By Malcolm Armsteen
#73515
Labour whip removed from

Apsana Begum
Richard Burgon
Ian Byrne
Imran Hussain
Rebecca LB
John McDonnell
Zarah Sultana
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By Abernathy
#73524
Undoubtedly pour encourager les autres. With a majority of 172, Starmer can comfortably afford to make an example of 7 of the usual suspects from the Trot tendency/Socialist Campaign Group.

Shades of 1997 and the SCG’s similar “rebellion” on lone parent benefits : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/38656.stm .

Lifting the 2 child benefit cap is not on the agenda currently. This was made clear before the election, and has been re-stated since the 4th July. This government will return to the business of reducing and eradicating child poverty, but not at the behest of a few posturing self-styled rebels. Particularly not this early in the life of the government.

Burgon, Long-Bailey, Sultana, McDonnell & co can have no cause for complaint.
Last edited by Abernathy on Tue Jul 23, 2024 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By Malcolm Armsteen
#73528
The Weeping Angel wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2024 8:57 pm A ridiculous OTT reaction in my view..
Nope.
He's given an answer to this, and this sort of performative virtue signalling has no place any longer in the party.
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By Malcolm Armsteen
#73529
Tubby Isaacs wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2024 9:36 pm I don’t agree. This was Labour Party policy till very recently. There are lots of good signs on policy. This will overshadow them.
The vote on the King's Speech is effectively a confidence vote. What else would you expect to happen?
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By The Weeping Angel
#73531
Malcolm Armsteen wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2024 10:08 pm
The Weeping Angel wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2024 8:57 pm A ridiculous OTT reaction in my view..
Nope.
He's given an answer to this, and this sort of performative virtue signalling has no place any longer in the party.
It's made them into martyrs.
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By Abernathy
#73532
Malcolm Armsteen wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2024 10:14 pm
Tubby Isaacs wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2024 9:36 pm I don’t agree. This was Labour Party policy till very recently. There are lots of good signs on policy. This will overshadow them.
The vote on the King's Speech is effectively a confidence vote. What else would you expect to happen?
It is important to remember that Keir Starmer has not outright opposed the Child Benefit Cap. The King’s speech announced a ‘taskforce’ which would examine the reasons for Child Poverty before prescribing a number of policies. Starmer has made clear that he will wait for this taskforce to give its findings before he makes a decision.

In fact, Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson has announced that Labour would support revising the cap “as one of a number of ways” to address child poverty. Whilst possibly a protest against the Government, this is most likely a way of indicating that Labour will scrap the policy eventually.

Indications from the Government imply that Starmer will eventually scrap the policy, however, he needs to do it in a way that shows that policies will be dictated top-down rather than bottom-up
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By Malcolm Armsteen
#73558
And



For those who don't Twitter:

It is absolutely ridiculous to throw out the slur that Labour want to keep children in poverty simply because they didn't lift the 2-child benefit cap within their first 18 days in office after 5,174 days in opposition.

One does not imply the other - that's a lazy, lazy argument.

Look at the full context:

1. This was a vote on the Kings Speech, the first and most high profile vote since Labour took office (and for a long time to come). A rebellion was obviously therefore going to be deeply embarrassing - and the rebels were absolutely aware of that.

2. Labour ran on a platform of fiscal responsibility. This was clear as daylight to every Labour candidate. It's not some wild swerve foisted on them after the election was won.

3. Labour are working at speed to produce a full picture of the economic situation the Tories left us in. That should be published before the summer recess. Things may look different within days. (For better or worse? We'll have to await the report.)

4. Labour have said they are reviewing concrete action to alleviate child poverty. Are the rebels claiming they're lying?

5. Senior Labour figures have indicated the 2-child benefit cap is potentially part of the wider review.

6. This was an SNP amendment. Supporting it was pure performative politics. It was never going to pass in a trillion years.

7. To come back to where we started, not voting for the amendment is not the same as seeking to keep children in poverty, wanting to keep children in poverty, planning to keep children in poverty, delighting in keeping children in poverty, or whatever other emotional framing lazy people choose to resort to instead of making a logical analytical argument.

A painful related truth: the hard Left of the party has a problem. They need to stay visible to stay relevant. It's like sharks have to keep swimming or they die. (That's a metaphor. It doesn't mean I think they're sharks. Sigh.) They therefore thrive on outrage farming just as much as those on the other extreme of politics, even though their actual political views are poles apart. One way to increase that visibility very quickly is to pick opportunities to have highly visible fights with the core party and the leadership.

That's what happened last night. Nothing more. Nothing less. No nefarious plot to keep children in poverty (or "starving" as the even more emotionally manipulative put it).

Starmer had two choices:
1) Let the rebellion go
2) Take strict action

1) would have given every group and faction within Labour the green light to start creating their own version of the ERG, Common Sense Group, or whatever they wanted to call themselves. Soon, the party would be as riven as the Tories were. Imagine herding those cats for the next 5 years!

Instead, by doing 2), Starmer called the bluff of people who knew exactly what they were doing.

Did Starmer's action indicate Labour won't lift the cap? No. It told us nothing of the sort.

Did Starmer's action indicate Labour are fine with child poverty? No. It told us nothing of the sort.

If in a few months - around the Autumn statement or shortly thereafter - Labour are still grinding their gears on child poverty without any progress, then you have the right to be aggrieved.

But 18 days into their term of office, and after all the clear signals they're trying to do the right thing as swiftly as prudence allows? Get over yourself.
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By Malcolm Armsteen
#73562
It's always been a vote of no confidence in the government's programme.

What did you expect to happen? Ice creams all round?
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