Mailwatch(ed) Forum

Quite.
I'm beginning to detect a Corbynite campaign to destabilise the current leadership and possibly lose the election.

Malcolm Armsteen wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2024 11:06 pm Quite.
I'm beginning to detect a Corbynite campaign to destabilise the current leadership and possibly lose the election.

I'd be worried if they had any political nous whatsoever,

^^^THIS^^^
Always remember that they are:
a) very few
b) very incompetent
There's no reason to fear them, ask a Tory.

This is, allegedly, the tweet in question, which includes an old Jon Stewart bit about the Israel lobby. If this really is the offending item then I’d suggest this has rather more to do with getting rid of a Corbynite than it does with racism.

https://x.com/phl43/status/1789653035456643277?s=46

What would happen to a Labour candidate if they reTweeted an interview I once saw with former Tory defence secretary Alan Clarke who said: “I don’t care if one lot of foreigners is fighting another lot of foreigners as long as they pay the bills (for UK military exports).’ As that’s the main view among the public to wars that aren’t existential to them. Especially in the Middle East.

Philip Marlow wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 8:04 am This is, allegedly, the tweet in question, which includes an old Jon Stewart bit about the Israel lobby. If this really is the offending item then I’d suggest this has rather more to do with getting rid of a Corbynite than it does with racism.

https://x.com/phl43/status/1789653035456643277?s=46

Almost certainly that's one of the tweets. Was this complained about at the time? If not, this looks very shoddy.

I don't like the Campaign Group at all and am delighted to see the back of Corbyn, but they're already irrelevant and can't stick up their own leadership candiate or anything. Better to let them wither on the vine.

Are potentially racist tinged Tweets a hot issue in a constituency that returned Duncan-Smith and Norman Tebbit to parliament?

My attitude is that right now there's one job to do - get enough Labour MPs in on July 5th to form a government. Everything has to feed into that. Everything else can wait.

Yes, a quiet readmittance and a kick upstairs for DA may have been the best answer, but if anyone thinks that this is the time to shove a skewer in the spokes, and attempt to derail the overall mission for essentially personal reasons, they can get to fuck.

Andy McDandy wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 9:40 am ... Everything has to feed into that...

Agreed. And Lewis Goodall suggested that a glass half-full is better than no glass at all.

I agree with that too, so long as the half-full glass doesn't contain poison.

Starmer really does have to be absolutely ruthless - I hope Abbott's assertion is correct and he really is embarked on a thorough purge of people like her, who frankly are not suitable to be MPs under Starmer's premiership. Starmer obviously has an eye to the future(as any good leader should), when twats like Abbott and sundry other members of the Campaign Group could, and would make trouble for his government.

Tubby Isaacs wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 9:19 amAlmost certainly that's one of the tweets. Was this complained about at the time? If not, this looks very shoddy.

It is - because of course it is - possible to use ‘the Israel lobby’ as a stand-in cover phrase for ‘the nefarious cabal of shadowy Jews who secretly control us via the Zionist Occupation Government’ but I think you have to squint very hard to read that tweet - let alone the clip linked to - as suggesting any such thing. The extent to which this stuff works can vary - remember seemingly every Labour MP in the country being asked ‘What is a woman?’ whenever they submitted to be interviewed or a journalist got within hailing distance? - but if you can make the experience of standing up for a cause sufficiently unpleasant then only the seriously committed (some of whom, I’m willing to admit, don’t seem to have packed the requisite number of sandwiches for a picnic) are going to stick at it.

The Campaign Group is basically nothing now. Pidcock and Dent Coad lost in 2019, Corbyn, Winter, Tarry and probably Abbot are being deselected this time. So there's very little power, certainly not enough to throw up another Jez leadership candidacy disaster. And though Abbot and Corbyn have profile to do continued damage, there's no way Faiza Shaheen has. She can do more damage by running as an independent. She already ran in 2019, so may have built up a decent locall profile.

Abernathy wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 11:50 am Starmer really does have to be absolutely ruthless - I hope Abbott's assertion is correct and he really is embarked on a thorough purge of people like her, who frankly are not suitable to be MPs under Starmer's premiership. Starmer obviously has an eye to the future(as any good leader should), when twats like Abbott and sundry other members of the Campaign Group could, and would make trouble for his government.

I can’t see it happening - it would create an unnecessary row and really why bother now? - but I think it might be more honest to simply announce that the SCG is a proscribed organisation and membership of or publicly expressed support for it will henceforth be regarded as an offence meriting automatic expulsion. Again, I wouldn’t expect anyone prominent to call for it (not on the record anyway) but I do think it would be reflective of what a number of the people around Starmer actually believe.

Tubby Isaacs wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 12:27 pmAnd though Abbot and Corbyn have profile to do continued damage, there's no way Faiza Shaheen has.

Given the scale of the Labour poll lead I don’t think either Corbyn or Abbott would be in a position to do much of anything, but at least with Abbott - especially with Abbott - you can argue that she is a nationally prominent figure. You wouldn’t have to look very far, or conduct too many on-the-street vox pops, to find people who’ve never been within a hundred miles of Hackney; but they know who Dianne Abbott is and they hate her. I’d wager the vast majority of people have no idea who Shaheen is.

This cuts across factions as well. I spent a portion of yesterday yucking it up with some similarly indecent left mates about the blatancy of the NEC gift wrapping North Durham for Luke Akehurst, but he’s an absolute nonentity to anyone who doesn’t pay close attention to internal Labour politics/pro-Israel advocacy orgs.

I was meaning that Abbott and Corbyn have the profile to damage if they were Labour MPs, rather than as candidates in this election. Agree about Akehurst.

I've just finished Alistair Campbell's "But What Can I Do?", in which he makes the point that a political party can be many things. A debating society, a social club, a community activism organisation, a pressure group and more; sometimes many or all of them.

But right now, it's a team on a mission and that means everyone being focused, or getting out. When people talk about the Labour Party being a moral crusade or nothing, I'd say that means (in part) that it has to keep its eye on the prize. Navel gazing just gets us back to the opposition benches.

It's because I'm focussed on winning that I'm critical of taking out Faisal Shaheen. I really don't see the point.

My simple self-justification for seeing the back of Corbyn et al; it worked so well in 2019

The grand irony of all this arguing of the toss is that I’m (probably) going to end up voting tactically for the Lib Dem candidate, as I did last time. I’m in Richmond Park at the moment, and for reference the voting tally for the big three in 2019 ended up being

Sarah Olney (Lib Dem) - 34,559
Zac Goldsmith (Con) - 26,793
Sandra Keen (Lab) - 3,407

So…aye. I’m obviously not going to out them by name, but I know local party members who didn’t vote for the Labour candidate. The margin had been tighter in previous elections, but Goldsmith coming out for Brexit almost certainly fucked him in what is a heavily remain-supporting area.

I don't think the prohibition is against voting as you please (it's a secret ballot after all).

You'll cross the line when you stand against a party member, or actively campaign for an opponent.