[safe_timber_man]

We can disagree and that's fine. Don't be a dick about it though, eh?

[Abernathy]

Eh? Who’s “being a dick” ?

[safe_timber_man]

I thought you were quoting what I said and was being sarcastic along with a little wink. Maybe I misread it?

[Oboogie]

For me, he's summed up by the photo of him being escorted away from the South African consulate.

Just a reminder: this wasn't the fascist pigs clamping down. It was the ANC in actually finally productive talks with the RSA government and not needing captain twatbasket with his fucking megaphone outside.

That photo is usually mislabelled as Jezza protesting against Apartheid. This is simply incorrect. He was actually taking part in a City of London Anti-Apartheid Group picket protesting against the ANC who they considered to be sellouts because they sought to end Apartheid by holding talks with the government.

[Crabcakes]

But just on a base human level, I think he is a kind man that wanted to help people, how ever unrealistic that was.

Not trying to be an arse either, but I think the problem with Jez is that *he* thinks he is a kind man who wants to help people, but because he can never see further than burnishing his own credentials he doesn’t realise when his ‘kindness’ results in harm, and he’s got too big an ego to listen to anyone who might advise him of such. He’ll stand on 1000 pickets in the pouring rain for your fight for higher wages, and will give 1000 speeches for free (and be delighted to be seen to be doing so), but when he was leader and could have actually done something such as throw his support behind the remain campaign and, say, turn up at even one rally? He was off attending conferences that weekend. And inconveniently, every other weekend there was one.

He’s a man who couldn’t make an effort for the greater good, even for a moment, when it wasn’t good for *him*. That’s who he really is.

[safe_timber_man]

Understandable. But he was never going to throw any weight behind the Remain campaign because he wasn't a Remainer. He wasn't honest about it but it was clear he never was going to be vocal about remaining. He was a Brexiter, not necessarily for the same motives as the other Brexiters, but he was transparent as fuck about it. I agree, he has a massive ego and he was a pain in the arse, to say the least. I guess I'm just viewing him as a person compared the so many of the current politicians who are just genuinely deeply unpleasant human beings. I don't think he is.

And Abers, sorry for getting snippy with you last night, it'd been a bad day!

[Samanfur]

Has anyone else here read All Out War by Tim Shipman?

It's his account of the Brexit campaign, and it's damning if even half of the insider accounts from the people around Corbyn're true.

[Abernathy]

Has anyone else here read All Out War by Tim Shipman?

It's his account of the Brexit campaign, and it's damning if even half of the insider accounts from the people around Corbyn're true.

Yes. Only one chapter on Corbyn amidst all the other shit, but by god, damning is scarcely the word. No wonder he called for Article 50 to be triggered the morning after the fucking referendum result.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

I've just gone back and re-read that chapter.

Fuuuuck....

[Andy McDandy]

Anyone fancy giving a quick precis?

[Malcolm Armsteen]

• Corbyn was always a Leaver, even when others changed. 'His ideas hadn't changed since he was 15'.
• He was surrounded by advisers such as Seamus Milne who were Leavers. They interfered with messaging.
• Labour policy (and most union policies) were Remain, so he had to be coerced to support party policy. Which he did with bad grace and sulkiness.
• He did not engage in the Remain campaign. He didn't even turn up to the campaign launch. He remained uncommitted.
• Refused to co-operate with other Remainers (eg Cameron) which meant a weak and underfunded campaign.
• His organisation of the shadow cabinet was a shambles and many talented people refused to serve.
• The politics behind the Labour campaign were inept to the point of incompetence.

Best if you read it - only £2.99 on Kindle.

[Crabcakes]

This is precisely why I think he isn’t a good man. Someone who’ll weep over your lost livelihood and wrecked life in front of the media but not lift a finger to prevent it behind closed doors is not your friend.

[Abernathy]

Understandable. But he was never going to throw any weight behind the Remain campaign because he wasn't a Remainer. He wasn't honest about it but it was clear he never was going to be vocal about remaining. He was a Brexiter, not necessarily for the same motives as the other Brexiters, but he was transparent as fuck about it. I agree, he has a massive ego and he was a pain in the arse, to say the least. I guess I'm just viewing him as a person compared the so many of the current politicians who are just genuinely deeply unpleasant human beings. I don't think he is.

I think what you are attempting to do is set aside the egregious awfulness of Corbyn as a political leader and focus in on his essential goodness and kindness as a human being.

I don't think that is actually possible to do. His stubbornly catastrophic period as Labour leader led the party down a very nearly terminal political cul-de-sac at a crucial time for the UK and effectively condemned us all to ten more years of chaotic and damaging Tory government (and that's without even considering Brexit) than we would otherwise have had to suffer. Basically, good, kind men do not generally do that kind of thing.

And Abers, sorry for getting snippy with you last night, it'd been a bad day!

I'm preparing myself to forgive you *

* Uncle Monty, Withnail & I.

[Crabcakes]

Saw a great quote on threads about US progressives (who failed to show up to protest a Trump rally), but it could equally apply to Corbyn and chums:

Progressive organizations focus on side quests and pretend they have the moral high ground, but liberals and unions actually do the work to save the world from fascism