Mailwatch(ed) Forum

The Remembrance Sunday ceremonials at the Cenotaph are always an emotionally charged occasion, and quite admirably well-drilled and executed. The event absolutely reeks tradition, from the wonderful military bands playing Nimrod and Hearts of Oak, the chimes of Big Ben announcing the start of the impeccably observed two minutes of silence., and the hundreds of ever-ageing, bemedalled veterans marching and being wheeled past the monument., to the familiar intonations of a Dimbleby. The whole thing seems to speak of tradition, of a nation united behind its monarch and its institutions, from parliament to Buck House, to Whitehall.

And I found myself wishing that the UK really was a united, strangely beautiful, inspiring place of the sort that the Remembrance Sunday ceremonials seem to evoke., and I suppose, some traditional old Tories still believe it to be.

But the stark truth is that it very much is not, and hasn't been for a very, very long time, if it ever was. The mere presence of Boris Johnson and Liz Truss amongst the VIPS was reminder enough of this.

So, is Remembrance Sunday still genuine enough, or just part of "un grand illusion"?

It is, and probably always was.
Now prey to so many unworthy attentions...


I've stopped going to our local.

The Sunday ceremony still is, but Remembrance Fortnight as it's become, is now a highly-politicised exhibition of who can pay enough respects and division-sewing.

Speaking very much from the outside, I don't know how the authenticity can be maintained with so much aggression directed into performative compliance.

You make my point succinctly.

Twenty, even ten years ago I went, out of a sense of duty and honour to my family and all the local men who served. But then it changed, the crowds got bigger and their understanding grew less.

Now, I remember (and I do) in private.

At least we didn't have to worry about the leader of the Labour Party turning up wearing a manky old cagoule this year.

Abernathy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 12:13 pm At least we didn't have to worry about the leader of the Labour Party turning up iwearing a manky old cagoule this year.

Shades of Michael Foot again.

Wreath layers from commonwealth countries would often be PMs and presidents who could use the occasion for a powwow with the British government. Dimbleby didn’t identify any faces this year as they’re now just ambassadorial delegates.

I think it's inevitable that as the wartime generation passes interest will fade and the nature of the event will change. The world wars were pretty universal, almost every family has someone who served in the vast conscript armed forces. Additionally, there will also be civilian tales of the home front, bombing, evacuation, rationing and other hardships. But not only are the veterans almost all gone, the children of the veterans are now knocking on themselves. The number of people who ever met a veteran and heard a first hand account is now diminishing.

So we're increasingly left with veterans of post-war conflicts (now there's an oxymoron!) who are, not only comparatively few in number but their wars are controversial. Most people can agree that stopping Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy and Imperial Japan was a worthwhile ambition and that, by the late '30s, war was the only practical way to achieve it. Opinions are very much more divided on the wars Britain has fought since.

The combination of disconnection and disapproval have left a vacuum which creates an opportunity for bad actors to fill it.

Despite the best efforts over the last decade plus - and especially this year - to "Ulsterise" the Poppy Appeal/Remembrance Sunday in Britain with heavy political overtones, the irony is that locally I don't think I have ever seen as few people wear poppies at this time of year compared to years past.

There was a bit of a row in the run-up to our service in Wellingborough between the RBL and the town council about who got to lay wreaths. The town council decided it was up to them because they apparently paid for it so the RBL chairman resigned in protest. And of course Bone showed up to lay a wreath. Also nobody handed out hymn sheets so there was just a load of people trying to wing it by mumbling on.

There was a bit of a row in the run-up to our service in Wellingborough between the RBL and the town council about who got to lay wreaths. The town council decided it was up to them because they apparently paid for it so the RBL chairman resigned in protest.

Was it Warden Hodges or Mainwaring who resigned?

I went to our ceremony in Langley in Berkshire. Quite a simple gathering around the village war memorial. two mins silnce at 11am followed by the Last Post. A few prayers, wreaths were laid by the local councillor and other people like the Police and Ambulance etc. After the ceremony the Scouts and Guides who had paraded up from the nearby church went back there. We are quite a mixed community and there were people in the crowd from a mix of faiths.

The one at University is always very pleasant (my University has a connection with various religions so we get a service).