Mailwatch(ed) Forum

Too groggy and depressed to talk about this crisis today or the tirade of anti Western bilge coming from all directions. But would like to know how this crisis is playing with the Russian public. Are they going gung-ho for a war with Ukraine and the West while looking forward to solidifying a future with China? Doubt there’s a Chinese Michael Jackson or Beatles wowing Moscow girls.

The Russians I know, who are young, educated and multi lingual, all think it's a tragic waste of time.

They, sadly, don't make up the majority. There is definitely a hardcore Slavophilic element, alongside the more general patriotic-leave-us-alone crowd.

Putin has just recognised the breakaway republics.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60454795

Dunno about you TWA, but I'm getting deeply uneasy about this.

From the link you provided:

Much of Vladimir Putin’s speech about Ukraine sounded like a fever dream. A nightmarish vision of a country economically crippled, utterly corrupt, bent on developing nuclear and other weapons of mass destruction and ungrateful for all the generous attention lavished on it by Russia since independence.

This wasn’t new. Mr Putin wrote a lengthy article last summer, making many of the same arguments.

But that didn’t make it any less shocking to hear. It underlined, for anyone with any lingering doubt, that Mr Putin is speaking from a very different place. This is not just a different slant on history. At times it felt like a parallel universe.

So am I.

I am uncomfortably closer to Lviv than I am London. If it all goes shitshaped, I doubt that this will even be a factor.

A number of people on a forum I use seem to find this of comfort;

https://debunkingdoomsday.quora.com/

I'm not so sure.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60468237

Putin has begun creeping in. The pork haystack has promised sanctions as retaliation but until he seizes Zone 1 London properties from the oligarchs, it's all bark and no bite.

"We are waking up to a very dark day in Europe and it’s clear from what we have already seen and found out today that the Russians, President Putin, has decided to attack the sovereignty of Ukraine and its territorial integrity.”

What has any of this got to do with The Saj?

Didn't someone say the biggest obstruction to financial sanctions against Russia is Londongrad?

kreuzberger wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:06 am

"We are waking up to a very dark day in Europe and it’s clear from what we have already seen and found out today that the Russians, President Putin, has decided to attack the sovereignty of Ukraine and its territorial integrity.”

What has any of this got to do with The Saj?

Is he the morning press wonk?

kreuzberger wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:06 am

"We are waking up to a very dark day in Europe and it’s clear from what we have already seen and found out today that the Russians, President Putin, has decided to attack the sovereignty of Ukraine and its territorial integrity.”

What has any of this got to do with The Saj?

He's clearly out of his depth on health issues, so ask him about something else.

To paraphrase Bill Hicks:

"How did you know the extent of Russian influence in the British political system?"

"We, uh, looked at our bank statements..."

Cyclist wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:18 am

kreuzberger wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:06 am

"We are waking up to a very dark day in Europe and it’s clear from what we have already seen and found out today that the Russians, President Putin, has decided to attack the sovereignty of Ukraine and its territorial integrity.”

What has any of this got to do with The Saj?

He's clearly out of his depth on health issues, so ask him about something else.

Was Liz Truss too busy preening for her Instagram account?

As far as I can see it was a bait and switch. He made out he was going to invade, rattled his little sabre, then took over an area Russia already had to practically all intents and purposes. He looks strong back home, the border is closer to make people sweat, and he gets to create a narrative about the world hating Russia to justify what he wants to do domestically.

Putin couldn’t afford a real war (literally - Russia’s economy for the size of the country is tiny). He gambled that threatening more but doing less would let him get away with the lesser thing with minimal impact.

I suspect we won’t really know what he did this for for some time yet.

As my brother put it in his own inimitable fashion, he's only going to put the tip in to show that he can.

My immediate thought about the recognition is seemingly opposite to wider reaction: that he recognises the states to introduce a second prong of leverage, the other being the massed troops on the border. Then he says 'accept this and I'll remove the troops'. That does however require a certain rationality on the part of Putin, and his tirade about Ukraine suggests that actually there is something far more unstable and emotional at work here. The Slavdom element is mythically powerful and historically jaundiced, to say the least.

Big countries normally have lots of resources, but Russia really got the shitty end of the stick. Crap weather, frozen ground, the rivers all run in the wrong direction and discharge either into the Arctic or the world's largest pond, and serve as barriers. And a big flat bit on the left side for your enemies to roll across.

Compare to America or Canada, or China. Natural features provide handy borders, no particularly concerning or aggressive neighbours, lots of fertile ground, and the fruits of the Earth lying very near the surface.

In those respects, it's more akin to the Congo, or to Brazil.

Taking the pro-Russian perspective at its word, I'm befuddled that the powers that don't have troops on the border of Ukraine and are saying 'hey power that does, stop threatening war' are being screamed at for being 'warmongers'.

I know my error is contained in the premise, but still...

Andy McDandy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 12:21 pm Big countries normally have lots of resources, but Russia really got the shitty end of the stick. Crap weather, frozen ground, the rivers all run in the wrong direction and discharge either into the Arctic or the world's largest pond, and serve as barriers. And a big flat bit on the left side for your enemies to roll across.

Russia is huge because there's vast swathes of it no one else wants.