[Mr angry Manchester]

I thought I would expand a little on this. To me, Labour have two radically different and incompatible support bases, the traditional working class group, who favour left wing economic policies, but are fairly conservative socially. I put myself in this category.

The second group are the better off, metropolitan liberal group, who are concerned with stuff like identity politics and Palestine etc. They are less concerned with the economic side of the programme, as they are reasonably comfortably off. The first group are either indifferent to, or actually hostile to the concerns of the second group.

Labour now appear to have retreated into metropolitan constituencies, having lost ground massively in their traditional heartlands. When you are struggling along on minimum wage or in the gig economy, gender identity isn't high on your list of priorities.

There is a perception that Labour's main focus is on the fringe-ish issues of the second group, rather than the areas which they have been traditionally been strong on, such as trade union rights and pay/conditions etc.

Is Starmer the man to unite these factions? I don't know, but I have stopped voting for them, in fact I have abstained since 2010, apart from the Brexit referendum, where I voted remain.

Unless they try to win back their working class base, we are in for years of Tory government.

[MisterMuncher]

I don't necessarily agree with the contention that broader liberal stances are incompatible with representing the working class as well.

If anything, there's more common ground between the two than there is to drive them apart. A coalition of the shat on.

[Andy McDandy]

There's a clip of 2 Labour MPs in the 80s, Old white guy from Sheffield, young black guy from London, arguing that exact point. What does equal rights have to do with miners in Barnsley and so on.

Point being, those who fuck over minorities will move on to white trash when there are no more BAME or gays to kick.

[MisterMuncher]

It's worth considering that the division is one quite well dug and watered by the kinds of shitehawks in the press much discussed here. It does take the form of some awful patronising bollocks, too.

[Youngian]

Shrodinger’s lefty is also accused of being stuck in the past if they still believe its the ‘economy, stupid.’ And not taking any interest in culture war and populist politics of emotion. Which I don’t give a fuck about as support for civil rights and justice is a given not something I expected to be the subject of debate ever again. Left at work for me; unions and stringent employment legislation but once you clock off its none of my business what people get up to in their private life. And most agree, there’s not much traction in English social conservatism beyond moaning about immigrants and stringing up nonces.

[Mr angry Manchester]

I've just completely had it with politics I'm afraid. I think it's all a waste of time.

[Youngian]

There's a clip of 2 Labour MPs in the 80s, Old white guy from Sheffield, young black guy from London, arguing that exact point. What does equal rights have to do with miners in Barnsley and so on.

Point being, those who fuck over minorities will move on to white trash when there are no more BAME or gays to kick.

Already have, its now the fault of the doleys that labour shortages persist. Cutting £20 per week isn’t enough, so I’ve read from people who previously claimed foreigners took our jobs.

[Bones McCoy]

I've just completely had it with politics I'm afraid. I think it's all a waste of time.

That's what THEY want you to think.

I'll expand on that.
You can take a couple of 30 minute slots to stay on top of current affairs each week.
If you do that you'll notice some Tory MPs on the take, the party whipped to cover it up.
You might even notice "Boris" leaving the Cop26 by private jet so he didn't miss a round at the Garrick club.

Or you can let it come to you, catch the Express headline while you're filling your tank at the garage.
Then you'll get an alternate set of facts: that "woke" people are subverting this country, that black footballers are wrong-uns, and don't get them started on the bloody French.


There's a choice: Inform yourself, and understand what's going on.
Or let somebody else inform you: and run the risk of getting played.

Choose the latter, and there's a whole red wall waiting for you down the 'spoons.

[The Weeping Angel]

The ones who bang on about Palestine tend in my view to economically left wing as well.

[mattomac]

I’m concerned with gay kids getting their eye sockets dislodged for being gay, I’m care about black guys not being crushed by knees.

I really couldn’t give a shit about Israel and Palestine until they sit down and consider a two state solution, surviving weekly most months is my aim and knowing if I lost my job another one will be hard to find and would leave me homeless within a month or so.

I have no pension, my parents are getting old and I don’t know how I’m going care for them when the time comes.

I care about the climate but I also try and save money because I have too.

Sorry I don’t fall into your pocket of old left or new left…. Maybe I care but I am also scared maybe that’s where I sit on the left.

[Oboogie]

I pay attention to politics because I need to as I'm not rich enough to be able to ignore it.

[The Weeping Angel]

I pay attention to politics because I need to as I'm not rich enough to be able to ignore it.

Same here.

[Nigredo]

In Edward Stourton's It's A PC World, he reckoned that in the late 80s and early 90s Labour picked up the nascent Identity Politics movement as Thatcher had won the economic argument for a decade. Now that the death throes of the neoliberalism project has begun, I see that certain interested parties are stoking anti-IdPol movements to skirt around having to admit the economic model was total bunkum at improving living standards and distributing equality. Unfortunately their rallying points are much fewer and simpler in concept than many of the logjams of the left so they get to scream the loudest and hold more sway on the average punter.

Whanging on about Palestine can all seem a bit Student Union politics, but it is an extension of how much we're all getting shafted by a billionaire class that are hoovering up all the wealth and resources for their underground vaults in preparation for the oncoming climate cataclysm.

[Mr angry Manchester]

Final post. I feel I've drifted too far away from the Mailwatch group think for it to be appropriate for me to be here any more.

I don't wish to cause upset or arguments here and no bad feelings towards anyone on here.

Kreuz, close account and delete.

PS all the best to you all for the future, and I promise I won't start voting Tory or reading the Daily Mail!

[Bones McCoy]

Final post. I feel I've drifted too far away from the Mailwatch group think for it to be appropriate for me to be here any more.

I don't wish to cause upset or arguments here and no bad feelings towards anyone on here.

Kreuz, close account and delete.

PS all the best to you all for the future, and I promise I won't start voting Tory or reading the Daily Mail!

All the best to you too sir, sincerely.