[Yug]

A layman asks:

Wouldn't it be a better idea to concentrate on the foundation skills in maths and English at primary school, rather than waiting 'til the kids have reached 11?

[Andy McDandy]

Hush now with your sensible ideas.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

@Andy McDandy Except the 'thinky' part won't be properly supported, Clarke was always a fan of 'remembery'.

I remembery when we tried to explain to him what the Excellence in Cities programme was. And failed. He didn't see the point of thinky.

Also from OCR's POV it's hard to examine the thinky part and ascribe a grade. Much easier with the remembery.

[Tubby Isaacs]

From the King's Speech. This sounds pretty good.

Require all schools to cooperate with the local authority on school admissions, SEND inclusion, and place planning, by giving local authorities greater powers to help them deliver their functions on school admissions and ensure admissions decisions account for the needs for communities

Require all schools to teach the national curriculum. This measure will be commenced after the review of curriculum and assessment is concluded and is reflected in programmes of study. The review will set the foundations to equip every child with the essential knowledge and skills for the future

[Malcolm Armsteen]

This is aimed at the Academy chains and Free Schools primarily, to remove their exempted status.

Good move.

[Tubby Isaacs]

@Andy McDandy Except the 'thinky' part won't be properly supported, Clarke was always a fan of 'remembery'.

I remembery when we tried to explain to him what the Excellence in Cities programme was. And failed. He didn't see the point of thinky.

Also from OCR's POV it's hard to examine the thinky part and ascribe a grade. Much easier with the remembery.

In my day, Oxford and Cambridge were regarded as the toughest board and as such appealed to some of our department heads who seemed to think everybody was going to study A Level in their subjects and needed "a proper base". Latin in particular was an absolute horror, with people who'd be getting Bs and Cs in other subjects getting Es and Us. Even French, which was easier to get a B or C in, had dictation which really punished small mistakes. It wasn't that you had to know lots of vocabulary so much as get complicated grammar right.

I don't know what Oxford and Cambridge are like now, but it's surely possible to do remembering and thinking at the same time.

[Tubby Isaacs]

This is aimed at the Academy chains and Free Schools primarily, to remove their exempted status.

Good move.

Yep.

Pretty much under the radar too. I think this is better than the 2019 approach of LAs reabsorbing all the schools and Ofsted being abolished, which seemed like classic "just be radical!" political journo stuff, with LAs not even all that keen on doing all this stuff again in the near future.

The only think I'm not really clear about is what happens to failing academy chains. I'd like to see some schools rejoining LAs where the LA is doing better.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Ah.

Bring multi-academy trusts into the inspection system and enable direct intervention when schools and trusts are not performing to the highest standards

[Malcolm Armsteen]

@Andy McDandy Except the 'thinky' part won't be properly supported, Clarke was always a fan of 'remembery'.

I remembery when we tried to explain to him what the Excellence in Cities programme was. And failed. He didn't see the point of thinky.

Also from OCR's POV it's hard to examine the thinky part and ascribe a grade. Much easier with the remembery.

In my day, Oxford and Cambridge were regarded as the toughest board and as such appealed to some of our department heads who seemed to think everybody was going to study A Level in their subjects and needed "a proper base". Latin in particular was an absolute horror, with people who'd be getting Bs and Cs in other subjects getting Es and Us. Even French, which was easier to get a B or C in, had dictation which really punished small mistakes. It wasn't that you had to know lots of vocabulary so much as get complicated grammar right.

I don't know what Oxford and Cambridge are like now, but it's surely possible to do remembering and thinking at the same time.

You're missing my point. It is much more time consuming and requires more training to assess thinking skills, and as such it isn't easy in a mass-exam system. Much easier to assess knowledge, rather than its manipulation.
See Bloom's Taxonomy.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I get that, and I'm sure that's an accurate view of Charles Clarke as Secretary of State.

Is understanding grammar not manipulation of knowledge? You couldn't rote learn your way to a high grade in O&C Latin or French. You could be good on vocabulary (which we learned then by doing a page a week in a test) and still struggle in the exam.

[Tubby Isaacs]

What about Maths? Isn't that fairly abstract? Isn't that applying knowledge? Doesn't seem too hard to test that.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

You are testing the end product, not the process. The thinking skills are in the process.

[Tubby Isaacs]

How do you get to the product without the thinking? And doesn't showing working reveal the process?

[Malcolm Armsteen]

No. It shows the product.
I think we are talking about something different. Education is not just about knowledge, it's also about the thinking skills which facilitate the acquisition of knowledge, necessary in a world where so much changes so quickly. Present exams (since the Gove reforms) exhibit the knowledge but not the process.

This is Bloom's Taxonomy (the basis of all education in the UK). What level do you think is assessed in tradition (post-Gove) GCSE?

KNOWLEDGE (Level 1)
remembering; memorizing; recognizing; recalling identification and recall of information
Who, what, when, where, how ...? Describe

COMPREHENSION (Level 2)
interpreting; translating from one medium to another; describing in one's own words; organization and selection of facts and ideas Retell...

APPLICATION (Level 3)
problem solving; applying information to produce some result; use of facts, rules and principles How is...an example of...? How is...related to...? Why is...significant?

ANALYSIS (Level 4)
subdividing something to show how it is put together; finding the underlying structure of a communication; identifying motives; separation of a whole into component parts What are the parts or features of...? Classify...according to... Outline/diagram... How does...compare/contrast with...? What evidence can you list for...?

SYNTHESIS (Level 5)
creating a unique, original product that may be in verbal form or may be a physical object;
combination of ideas to form a new whole What would you predict/infer from...? What ideas can you add to...? How would you create/design a new...? What might happen if you combined...? What solutions would you suggest for...?

EVALUATION (Level 6)
making value decisions about issues; resolving controversies or differences of opinion; development of opinions, judgements or decisions Do you agree...? What do you think about...? What is the most important...? Place the following in order of priority... How would you decide about...? What criteria would you use to assess...?

[Tubby Isaacs]

I think we are talking about something different. Education is not just about knowledge, it's also about the thinking skills which facilitate the acquisition of knowledge, necessary in a world where so much changes so quickly.

Well, let's stick to my example of languages. I think the biggest employer in my hometown was GCHQ, where a lot of employees for obvious reasons needed to be able to read and understand spoken Russian. Not many people back then studied Russian. So one option for recruitment would be people who'd demonstrated academic language skills in French, German, Spanish etc (Spanish wasn't all that common back then).

The knowledge of French vocabulary and grammar isn't particularly useful for learning Russian. So surely what's being recruited here is a skill in languages, thinking skills?

[Tubby Isaacs]

In other news. This sounds good.

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/eef-boss-prof ... um-review/

The government is set appoint Professor Becky Francis, chief executive of the Education Endowment Foundation, to lead its curriculum and assessment review, Schools Week understands.

Francis took over the top EEF job in 2020 from Sir Kevan Collins, who is now school standards advisor to the new government.

Labour has committed to a review to “modernise” the school curriculum, working with school staff, parents and employers.

It is expected Francis’ appointment will be announced today or tomorrow, with further details on the review possible.

Francis was previously director at the University College London’s Institute of Education. Her research focused on social identities and educational inequalities.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

I think we are talking about something different. Education is not just about knowledge, it's also about the thinking skills which facilitate the acquisition of knowledge, necessary in a world where so much changes so quickly.

Well, let's stick to my example of languages. I think the biggest employer in my hometown was GCHQ, where a lot of employees for obvious reasons needed to be able to read and understand spoken Russian. Not many people back then studied Russian. So one option for recruitment would be people who'd demonstrated academic language skills in French, German, Spanish etc (Spanish wasn't all that common back then).

The knowledge of French vocabulary and grammar isn't particularly useful for learning Russian. So surely what's being recruited here is a skill in languages, thinking skills?

It indicates a facility with languages. It doesn't necessarily mean strong thinking skills. Have a look at this description of critical thinking, an example of higher order thinking skills (HOTS)

Critical thinking is the intellectually disciplined process of actively and skillfully conceptualizing, applying, analyzing, synthesizing, and/or evaluating information gathered from, or generated by, observation, experience, reflection, reasoning, or communication, as a guide to belief and action.

7 critical thinking steps
Identify the problem. ...
Perform adequate research. ...
Determine the relevance of gathered information. ...
Ask relevant questions. ...
Identify an effective solution. ...
Present your solution. ...
Analyze the solution's effectiveness.

So you should be able to see that this does not easuily equate to facility in a certain skill or skillset, such as an effective understanding of language structures.

[Tubby Isaacs]

That definition seems to be specifically a particular sort of problem solving.

"Facility with languages" surely involves thinking. When I first went to France, I was exhausted at the end of every day. If I wasn't thinking hard, what was I doing?

[Malcolm Armsteen]

That definition seems to be specifically a particular sort of problem solving.

"Facility with languages" surely involves thinking. When I first went to France, I was exhausted at the end of every day. If I wasn't thinking hard, what was I doing?

Problem solving is pretty much what critical thinking/HOTS is. That's what I'm talking about.

However hard you were thinking it probably wasn't higher order.

I think that you and I are using 'thinking skills' differently. My definition is the one used in education.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I get you better now, thanks.

That seems like quite a lot to expect from schools though. How realistic is it to expect them to be able to do that, except maybe with project work? (I think Gove got rid of that on personal whim, but I'm a fan).