[kreuzberger]

It's all a hashtag's fault and nothing to do with a constant barrage of EUSSR / Nazi / Stazi insults from the quitter antagonists, says a bloke who presumably could get an Irish passport tomorrow.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

That isn't true. Sins of omission and commission are identifiably of a different moral nature, even if they lead to the same end.l
.

Absolutely.

[Tubby Isaacs]

He's half remembered something he overheard a first year PPE student say about a blind man about to walk over the edge of a cliff.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Heck, he's half remembering something he actually studied himself (PPE, though at York, not Oxford).

[mattomac]

"Cost to the taxpayer". Absolute bollocks.

It’s good to train up more staff in say education and hospitals, but the latter you removed the bursary for two years ago.

[mattomac]

This is perfectly normal behaviour for somebody who thinks things are going well.

So why does he keep bringing it up? This was the thing, people said once we leave the EU it will at least be over, and I said no, that’s when it starts and it’s started.

As for a war ffs.

[MisterMuncher]

As for a war ffs.

I've said it before, but Farage has either never suffered a day of actual hardship in his life, or is irredeemably crass, or both. My money is formly on the last one.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Larry Ellliott, the Guardian's Kipper economics correspondent.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... -low-wages

If that way of doing things – in which the flipside of over-reliance on unskilled, cheap labour has been persistent underinvestment – is now coming apart then that is a welcome development and not a bad thing.

Now do the fall in trade with our biggest market. What does that do to incentives to invest?

There is something seriously wrong about an economy where more than half the people living below the official poverty line are from working households and where a large chunk of the welfare bill is spent supplementing the incomes of those who do not earn enough to get by.

And how much of this is down to immigration exactly? Probably not very much when compared to stuff wholly within our control, like government spending, stronger labour market regulation, lack of affordable housing.

Employers have only a limited range of options if they find themselves short of staff and it is not possible to call up reinforcements from overseas. They can invest more in labour-saving equipment; they can invest more in training to raise skill levels; or they can pay more in order to attract staff.

Another option might be for the employer to get out a calculator and do some basic management accounting. And conclude that it's no longer worth doing some things they were doing before because the margin is now too low. Talking of management accounting, maybe Tesco do some and conclude they can screw suppliers a bit harder to pay for these lorry driver bonuses. Neither of these would be wage bonanzas.

That is not quite the end of the story, because increasing the supply of overseas workers also boosts demand. The new employees are also consumers and spend the money they earn like everybody else. The extra demand creates more jobs, although mainly in low-paid sectors.

Nor is that the end of the story. The extra workers pay in more tax than they cost, and increase productivity. Not sure we can afford to piss those away in the current climate.

[Youngian]

Its been known for decades that Western countries would face labour shortages due to a falling birth rate. Luckily the UK fixed the problem by welcoming fit eager young EU citizens and others to their country. Until they were told to piss off and have. Agricultural field labour shortages might get plugged by shipping over seasonal labour from the most desperate countries around the globe. Not a model for care homes or HGV drivers though. The average age of many trades is over 50 as well.

[Bones McCoy]

This is perfectly normal behaviour for somebody who thinks things are going well.

So why does he keep bringing it up? This was the thing, people said once we leave the EU it will at least be over, and I said no, that’s when it starts and it’s started.

As for a war ffs.

We will always be at war with the EUSSR, their grift requires it.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

Definition of toxic masculinity; always in a war against something.

[Cyclist]

No "traditional*" Christmas dinner this year cos the turkeys all voted for Christmas...

UK poultry producers have warned that serious staff shortages caused by Brexit could mean there are not enough turkeys to go round this Christmas.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... on-jobs-eu

*Troo patriotik gammons think a bird native to North America is the Traditional English Christmas Dinner. That's why Ebeneezer Scrooge sent the lad running to the butcher's to buy the biggest GOOSE in the shop

[Bones McCoy]

A reflection.

Showing my age:
In This is your Life, Eamonn Andrews would always introduce a few old school pals, who had known the star back in primary or secondary school days.
There were often fond hugs, and the impression that the famous person had remained in touch with at least a few folk from the old life.

Likewise, many mainstream politicians would reference formative experiences of their early life.
Some would even have folk who knew them as youngsters provide an interesting reference:
"Always ready to right any wrongs", "Showed her leadership potential at the school hockey club" - that sort of thing.

These Grifters are almost exclusively men (or women) without a past.
Trump was notable for a complete absence of school or college pals lining up to commend his presidential campaigns.
Farage is similar, where are the Dulwich old boys with a tale about Nigel doing something worthwhile, or even being a sound pal?

Where something of the past comes out, it's usually something unsavoury.
Farage singing Nazi songs.
Hopkins socking off a guy in a field.
CraftyWank getting the blue goldfish treatment.
Yaxley-Lennon failing to get an A at combined classics.
Trump's serial bankruptcies.

But it's never anything that humanises the image.
Even Corbyn had his jam and allotments.
It says a lot about these people and their followers that they have such an empty past.

[Bones McCoy]

No "traditional*" Christmas dinner this year cos the turkeys all voted for Christmas...

UK poultry producers have warned that serious staff shortages caused by Brexit could mean there are not enough turkeys to go round this Christmas.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... on-jobs-eu

*Troo patriotik gammons think a bird native to North America is the Traditional English Christmas Dinner. That's why Ebeneezer Scrooge sent the lad running to the butcher's to buy the biggest GOOSE in the shop

And remember folks.
It's not a proper Christmas Turkey unless it has Christmas printed on it. *
Don't get tricked into one of those Muslamic-Atheist Turkeys like they sell down the Tescos.

* Half-arsed reference to Easter Egg outrage form back in the day.

[Andy McDandy]

Not so long ago, most public figures had what Dennis Healey called a hinterland, number of interests outside of politics or current affairs.

While I get that especially during the 90s there was the effort to say or do nothing that would frighten even a single horse, so only the blandest, most LCD "likes" were allowed (footie for the men, shopping for the ladies, Take That rather than White Zombie etc), it is interesting that I cannot think of a single figure on the right being at ease with a novel, or enjoying a film or anything for its own sake. I recall hearing that Johnson recovered from Covid watching Lord of the Rings films, but that strikes me as about his intellectual level. Big bangs, Somme spirit, and great men narratives.

[Bones McCoy]

Not so long ago, most public figures had what Dennis Healey called a hinterland, number of interests outside of politics or current affairs.

While I get that especially during the 90s there was the effort to say or do nothing that would frighten even a single horse, so only the blandest, most LCD "likes" were allowed (footie for the men, shopping for the ladies, Take That rather than White Zombie etc), it is interesting that I cannot think of a single figure on the right being at ease with a novel, or enjoying a film or anything for its own sake. I recall hearing that Johnson recovered from Covid watching Lord of the Rings films, but that strikes me as about his intellectual level. Big bangs, Somme spirit, and great men narratives.

If I'm to think of Tories with some "culture": It's folks like Kenneth Clarke and Rory Stewart.
People with interests outside the bubble.
People expelled by Johnson.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

High Tories?

Heseltine.
Geoffrey Howe.

[MisterMuncher]

Not so long ago, most public figures had what Dennis Healey called a hinterland, number of interests outside of politics or current affairs.

While I get that especially during the 90s there was the effort to say or do nothing that would frighten even a single horse, so only the blandest, most LCD "likes" were allowed (footie for the men, shopping for the ladies, Take That rather than White Zombie etc), it is interesting that I cannot think of a single figure on the right being at ease with a novel, or enjoying a film or anything for its own sake. I recall hearing that Johnson recovered from Covid watching Lord of the Rings films, but that strikes me as about his intellectual level. Big bangs, Somme spirit, and great men narratives.

I think more than one politician saw the unedifying spectacle of one of their number claiming fandom of a less commercial artist who promptly told them to fuck off.

Boris strikes me as one of those psychic blanks with no love of art beyond monetary value and a way to keep historical score. Cameron too. One of those "I just put the radio on, listen to whatever" motherfuckers.

[Oboogie]

If I'm to think of Tories with some "culture": It's folks like Kenneth Clarke and Rory Stewart.
People with interests outside the bubble.
People expelled by Johnson.

Even John Major had his love of cricket.

[davidjay]

Loathe as I am to cut any sort of slack towards a group that includes Boris Johnson and Michael Gove, the lack of outside focus in life isn't confined to politicians. I find that many middle-aged people tend to be, despite their honours degree from the University of Life, frighteningly ignorant of anything that doesn't directly concern them. Their parents, born in the immediate post-war era and wanting to improve themselves, were far more politically and socially aware, as are their children.