Mailwatch(ed) Forum

Fascinating article in this week’s New European about a theoretical way in which the Prime Minister could approach the subject of the UK getting its membership of the EU back (as I think it eventually must, and will). Particularly in its last five paragraphs or so, it is about political courage and leadership, not just of Sir Keir’s party, but of this country.

I thought it could serve as a jumping-off point for a new debate thread here. Could such a speech really be made, realistically, by Keir? Is the timing right, if not now, then when? What would be the reaction? Could we ride out and face down the Gammon backlash ?

I think it’s right to rule out another referendum on joining the European Free Trade Area and instead make full re-joining of the EU a key commitment of a future Labour election manifesto. However, I also think that more progress will need to be made in delivering the missions of the 2024 manifesto before Keir can dare attempt a speech resembling the content of d’Ancona’s imagined one.


https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/matth ... must-give/

Stifling the economy and leaving us all poorer in order to appear to the right of Viktor Orban on free movement rights isn’t halting Farage’s march. So stop this nonsense and pin the rise on ‘commonwealth’ immigration on him.

With this one weird trick all our problems are solved.

The Weeping Angel wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 3:03 pm With this one weird trick all our problems are solved.

If you think there are other good reasons why this government is keeping export controls (that Johnson imposed) to its biggest market I' m all ears.

it is about political courage and leadership

Yes it is, but unfortunately I can't see that coming from Kier Starmer. I don't know why but it seems like the government were totally unaware that they weren't going to get a holiday when thy got into power and that the Reform/GBeebies/Daily Mail/Tufton St/Gammon Brigade would go for the jugular on anything Labour would do from day one and after getting their fingers burnt with a couple of minor policies, they now seem to be tip-toeing about trying to contain Farage and appease a cohort of voters who wouldn't vote for them anyway.

Although the economy's fucked, this government still has the majority to be truly radical but they're just too frit to use it, so I don't think they'll touch anything meaningful with regards closer ties to the EU with a bargepole and they'll just tinker around the edges.

Youngian wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 3:38 pm

The Weeping Angel wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 3:03 pm With this one weird trick all our problems are solved.

If you think there are other good reasons why this government is keeping export controls (that Johnson imposed) to its biggest market I' m all ears.

Ok get rid of those then.

Dalem Lake wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 3:38 pm

it is about political courage and leadership

Yes it is, but unfortunately I can't see that coming from Kier Starmer. I don't know why but it seems like the government were totally unaware that they weren't going to get a holiday when thy got into power and that the Reform/GBeebies/Daily Mail/Tufton St/Gammon Brigade would go for the jugular on anything Labour would do from day one and after getting their fingers burnt with a couple of minor policies, they now seem to be tip-toeing about trying to contain Farage and appease a cohort of voters who wouldn't vote for them anyway.

Although the economy's fucked, this government still has the majority to be truly radical but they're just too frit to use it, so I don't think they'll touch anything meaningful with regards closer ties to the EU with a bargepole and they'll just tinker around the edges.

Which minor policies?

Every Labour government seems desperate to avoid annoying their sworn enemies. It's a strange phenomenon.

It will take this cash is king lot to die off first…. Though getting rid of the pound and we know that we will may be slightly easier without the Queen on it.

Sadly no debate is about joining the Euro it’s about whether you have someone’s face on it.

Can I just ask - did anyone contributing to this (admittedly putative) debate thread actually read Matthew D'Ancona's article, posted in the OP?

Abernathy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2024 11:28 am Can I just ask - did anyone contributing to this (admittedly putative) debate thread actually read Matthew D'Ancona's article, posted in the OP?

It's paywalled, hence I can't comment on it.

Try entering the URL here. It's working for me.

I'd comment myself, but I'm firmly in Mummy mode at the weekend, so I'll be back later.

I think the best chance of Britain rejoining the EU will be if Labour end up relying on Lib Dem support after the next election. The Lib Dems could then demand a referendum as part of any coalition deal.

The Weeping Angel wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 3:46 pm

Youngian wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 3:38 pm

The Weeping Angel wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 3:03 pm With this one weird trick all our problems are solved.

If you think there are other good reasons why this government is keeping export controls (that Johnson imposed) to its biggest market I' m all ears.

Ok get rid of those then.

Don’t think you understand how being a member of the Single Market means conforming to a single set of rules and jurisdiction. Including free movement.

satnav wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2024 3:59 pm I think the best chance of Britain rejoining the EU will be if Labour end up relying on Lib Dem support after the next election. The Lib Dems could then demand a referendum as part of any coalition deal.

Or the Tories following two GE defeats. As for Starmer and Reeves not wanting to reopen up national wounds, well Farage is going to do that anyway and Labour are acting like sitting ducks.

satnav wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2024 3:59 pm I think the best chance of Britain rejoining the EU will be if Labour end up relying on Lib Dem support after the next election. The Lib Dems could then demand a referendum as part of any coalition deal.

What would that achieve?

Youngian wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2024 4:18 pm

satnav wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2024 3:59 pm I think the best chance of Britain rejoining the EU will be if Labour end up relying on Lib Dem support after the next election. The Lib Dems could then demand a referendum as part of any coalition deal.

Or the Tories following two GE defeats. As for Starmer and Reeves not wanting to reopen up national wounds, well Farage is going to do that anyway and Labour are acting like sitting ducks.

How's he reopening old wounds? He's going around being a British Trump not campaigning for Brexit.

Boats, immigrants, ECHR, sovereignty; immigrants, wokes, left wing milk, RNLI rescuing illegal immigrants. Culture wars, wedge issues, immigrants blah blah

Oboogie wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2024 4:19 pm

satnav wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2024 3:59 pm I think the best chance of Britain rejoining the EU will be if Labour end up relying on Lib Dem support after the next election. The Lib Dems could then demand a referendum as part of any coalition deal.

What would that achieve?

On the basis of the experience of the 2016 referendum, all it would achieve would be more bitterness, lies, division, racism and grifting. Frankly, if we never have another referendum again in the UK, it’ll still be too soon for me.

In that respect, D’Ancona’s piece is attractive in imagining Labour instead putting a commitment to reinstate the UK’s membership of the EU in a future election manifesto, possibly in 2029.

Please, no more referenda. Ever.