[Tubby Isaacs]

Carla Denyer claiming her wealth tax would raise up to £24bn. This is absolute bollocks- see Spain's recent experience. The UK Left always thinks things can be paid for by someone else.

But I suppose it's going to get a run because of how tight things are. Labour ought to put more effort into rebutting this stuff. And raise more tax, or devolve more powers on to councils, like Bristol's Greens. Bristol is on GDP per capital the 6th richest city in the UK. Sounds like it can pay more tax if it wants to. Doubtless that'll be wrong though. eh?

[The Weeping Angel]

Well in Bristol the Greens have decided to slash spending and sell off council houses. I guess this is different from the austerity they complain about.

[Killer Whale]

I'm not even sure how a 'wealth tax' works. Is it just "you've got a billion, give us 50 million of it"? What if it's not liquid? Can they pay in Amazon shares? What happens the following year? "You've got 950 million, give us 47million of it"?

Wouldn't it be much simpler to tighten up and expand Capital Gains Tax, Inheritance Tax and so on?

[Tubby Isaacs]

That's presumably. response to the local budget conditions. I don't know how much of those are their fault, in fairness.

One thing I am surprised about is that there hasn't been a much greater push for what Nottingham (and only them) have done with taxing company car parking. The Greens are a couple of seats short of a majority, but even so.

[The Weeping Angel]

That's presumably. response to the local budget conditions. I don't know how much of those are their fault, in fairness.

One thing I am surprised about is that there hasn't been a much greater push for what Nottingham (and only them) have done with taxing company car parking. The Greens are a couple of seats short of a majority, but even so.

I imagine so but it's something to throw at them when they lecture us on austerity.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I'm not even sure how a 'wealth tax' works. Is it just "you've got a billion, give us 50 million of it"? What if it's not liquid? Can they pay in Amazon shares? What happens the following year? "You've got 950 million, give us 47million of it"?

Wouldn't it be much simpler to tighten up and expand Capital Gains Tax, Inheritance Tax and so on?

I assume that where wealth taxes exist, people who pay it just keep a certain amount liquid. At least with publicly quoted shares, you can value them. How do you value shares in private companies at all?

Yes, it is better just to tax income more, though reasons to be skeptical you could get £24bn more a year off the sort of people the Greens want to target without some sort of reaction. The political rationale is freebies paid for by someone else. But if everyone else just holds up their hands, it's not surprising that wealth taxes get public support.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I imagine so but it's something to throw at them when they lecture us on austerity.

They're bullshitting about austerity- spending and borrowing are going up- but that doesn't mean that local government isn't in the shit through things that aren't its fault. I don't know local conditions in Bristol.

[Killer Whale]

'Wealth Tax' is a good name. No one, not even run-of-the-mill millionaires. considers themselves to be 'wealthy', so the 'someone else will be paying' vibe is very strong indeed.

[The Weeping Angel]

I imagine so but it's something to throw at them when they lecture us on austerity.

They're bullshitting about austerity- spending and borrowing are going up- but that doesn't mean that local government isn't in the shit through things that aren't its fault. I don't know local conditions in Bristol.

I know and the government should be doing more to help local govt. Here in Birmingham local government really is in the shit.

[Tubby Isaacs]

On Greens and taxes, I assume this stuff is still policy.

https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2024/06/07/gre ... _increase/

The upshot-£50bn extra in tax, and almost half of all households would pay more tax. It would probably cost a fair bit more to get the sort of services Greens want- Sam Freedman estimated the cost of services he'd want was a fair bit more than that. A fair reaction would be to say that though the taxes weren't all that well designed, it was a serious effort that recognized the shit we're in.

The problem comes when you misrepresent this as only being the richest who'd be paying more. As I always say, had the Tories not been blindsided by the Greens in my constituency, they would have made considerable hay with it.

[Tubby Isaacs]

The Green party is also calling for the UK to rejoin the customs union. And rejoining would be “the best option” when there is political support for that, it says. But, in a statement issued to mark the fifth anniversary, the party also says the referendum showed the problem with “binary choices” and it calls for the use of citizens’ assemblies to chart a way forward.

Ellie Chowns MP said

How would this work with something that's a negotiation? The assembly decide, the minister gets told "no" and has to go back to the assembly? The committee would be seen as rigged by lots of people, whatever it said. I

I think the idea is better for assisted dying, which is a purely national thing without (whateve Streeting says) massive fiscal implications.

[mattomac]

Problem is can you really now give discussions of the next deal with the EU over to a political assembly.

After all you are picking random people doesn’t suggest you’ll get a better consensus and you’d still have the aggro of those not on it. Also the Mail would probably do a hatchet job and put some of these people at physical harm.

A high court judge at least has some protection. As you say something like Assisted dying makes more sense.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I don't think you will get consensus on this. Lots of people oppose a Greens-type rapprochement on principle. Do you have Lee Anderson or Daniel Hannan on there representing them? What's the point? Just have the Minister, answerable to Parliament. Why stick a bunch of other people in the middle of it all?

Is there going to be a citizens' assembly on eg Green Party tax policy? My guess is that their policy where a lot more people paying a lot more tax would not be particularly popular. I expect those policies are expected just to happen because the Greens/Corbyn/whoever has an electoral mandate.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Caroline Lucas
‪@carolinelucas.bsky.social‬

Follow
When will Govt learn you can’t out-Reform Reform - you end up simply legitimising their toxic narrative. To see off populists, Labour needs to invest in public services & local communities, making a real difference to people’s lives - levy a wealth tax & use it to improve people’s lives *now*

This is a response to an article about an unnamed group of Labour MPs, not "the Government".

Improve lives "now" though. That's how investment works, if you've never done any government, like Caroline hasn't. Plus the usual "everything we want, someone else paying",

[Youngian]

Been reading Lucas's Another England, if the Greens had Alex Salmond's political street smarts they'd be aiming these alternative patriotic ideas at white van man instead of Grace Blakeley.
Although the Greens don't dislike kids or immigrants, they shouldn't be afraid to discuss their pro depopulation agenda with those that do.

'A visionary book' Philip Pullman
'Essential and magnificent' George Monbiot
'Deft and wonderfully poetic' Grace Blakeley

The Right have hijacked Englishness. Can it be reclaimed?

Today, the only people who dare speak of Englishness are cheerleaders for Brexit, exceptionalism and imperial nostalgia. But there is another England, hiding in plain sight, which is dramatically more inclusive and forward looking. Here, Caroline Lucas delves deep into England's literary history to sketch out alternative stories of who we are - ones that we can all embrace to build a greener, fairer future https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/453710/ ... 1804941591

[Tubby Isaacs]

Sunder Katwala does that sort of thing very well.

[The Weeping Angel]

Caroline Lucas
‪@carolinelucas.bsky.social‬

Follow
When will Govt learn you can’t out-Reform Reform - you end up simply legitimising their toxic narrative. To see off populists, Labour needs to invest in public services & local communities, making a real difference to people’s lives - levy a wealth tax & use it to improve people’s lives *now*

This is a response to an article about an unnamed group of Labour MPs, not "the Government".

Improve lives "now" though. That's how investment works, if you've never done any government, like Caroline hasn't. Plus the usual "everything we want, someone else paying",

Maybe the Greens should stop opposing infrastructure projects then.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I'll vote for Ellie again for tactical reasons, but this is pretty unimpressive. Lots of us in North Herefordshire support inheritance tax on expensive farms. Tax raised at a lower rate than on most of us, with much longer to pay. Reminds of those Independent MPs opposing VAT on school fees because a noisy bit of the their electorate has been in their ear.

I'm all for the Greens winning more seats like mine off the Tories though, and I shouldn't be too harsh.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Talk about a Damascene conversion here, from opposing HS2, which apparently they now support (if I was a suspicious type, I'd say that because it's been cut back, so they can now tout a load of free money for their hobby horses, but there has been a good dogged campaign by supporters). And it's not just "let's take out domestic flights with high speed rail" but "high speed rail to replace international flights", which is quite something. High speed rail from Bristol to the Channel Tunnel is a ridiculous priority.

[kreuzberger]

What do we hate most? The tories with their 14 years of larceny, or the modest numbers of noisy, superannuated peasantry?

When it comes to 3D political chess, I've had tougher games of Buckaroo.