[Youngian]

I think all Muslim MPs voted against. I'm guessing here, but the opposition may not be entirely down to religious influence. Sultana and Begum have supported trans rights, which I'd guess are a hard sell with a lot of Muslim constituents.

If you need quick assistance with your death reading a Salman Rushdie novel outside a mosque should do it.

[The Weeping Angel]

I just hope in the future we're not having to explain why we allowed the elderly and disabled to be killed.

You can file it alongside all the other nonsense catastrophising arguments that never amounted to anything that proceeded it, such as letting people other than landed gentry vote, letting women vote, decriminalising homosexuality, allowing divorce, allowing contraception, allowing allowing abortion and so on.

If you want to look at what this will be like go look at the clusterfuck that Is MAID.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

Just another perspective. It will not always be the old or the infirm, but cases like this show exactly why this change in law is needed and how important it is. It is about being brave enough to allow people to make a choice that is the ultimate self care decision and a choice that should be wholly theirs to make as long as they are of sound mind to make it.

This poor young woman’s only other options were suicide or essentially a life sentence of 50+ years of wretched, inescapable misery. Longer than a murderer would get, with no hope of escape and no prospect of joy.

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/art ... -suffering

That case wouldn't be allowed under this bill, would it?

Not as the Bill is currently framed.

[Crabcakes]

I just hope in the future we're not having to explain why we allowed the elderly and disabled to be killed.

You can file it alongside all the other nonsense catastrophising arguments that never amounted to anything that proceeded it, such as letting people other than landed gentry vote, letting women vote, decriminalising homosexuality, allowing divorce, allowing contraception, allowing allowing abortion and so on.

If you want to look at what this will be like go look at the clusterfuck that Is MAID.

Looking at a flawed system and saying that is a reason not to have any system whatsoever, while ignoring other systems with more robust safeguards that have not faced similar criticisms, is at best disingenuous. At worst, it ignores all the people that even a system that could be improved has helped end their lives in dignity and without unnecessary distress.

I really cannot emphasise this enough - hand wringing and fretting about scenarios that there will be multiple safeguards against is absolutely no reason to continue to expect people to suffer instead. You do not get to choose that for them. Period.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

Baz sPekEs hIs bRanEs...

[Crabcakes]

Yes, because famously (a) no one has ever committed suicide and (b) no one has ever heard of anyone doing something like asking a loved one to just leave them some extra tablets out by accident. And it definitely hasn’t been a plot used in Eastenders and Casualty.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

He's very simple minded.

[Youngian]

Curious to see anti statist libertarian Nigel Farage voting against the Assisted Dying bill? Don't be, he's already shit stirring to bring Trump's culture wars to these shores

Nigel Farage suggests MPs should debate rolling back abortion limit
Reform UK leader says it would be ‘worthy’ discussion and parliament should get more time ‘to debate things people talk about at home’
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/ ... tion-limit

[davidjay]

Curious to see anti statist libertarian Nigel Farage voting against the Assisted Dying bill? Don't be, he's already shit stirring to bring Trump's culture wars to these shores

Nigel Farage suggests MPs should debate rolling back abortion limit
Reform UK leader says it would be ‘worthy’ discussion and parliament should get more time ‘to debate things people talk about at home’
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/ ... tion-limit

And we all know what "things' he means.

[Bones McCoy]

Once again, we've seen the public school debating club techniques deployed en masse.

I have no doubt that opponents have varied and valid reasons to not support the vote.
I did notice their main technique was shifting the debate to topics beyond the bill's scope.
Thankfully, this was rapidly pointed out, but it didn't prevent its re-use during subsequent press conferences.


I did enjoy the free vote (is that the correct term) allowing an open discussion not constrained by party lines.

[Tubby Isaacs]

The Guardian had the opinion of Diane Abbott as one of its lead stories.

I find this absolutely bizarre. We know that the Guardian doesn't like Abbott's politics much. Obviously, she's got insights on eg race which other politicians can't have, so I understand why she's quoted on that. But what's her expertise, experience here that justifies her being elevated to political conscience? I don't get it.

[Crabcakes]

One of the things we often talk about at home is how Nigel Farage is a fucking twat and shouldn’t be given even a fraction of the tv exposure he gets.

Happy for that to be talked about and legislation put in place to correct it.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Once again, we've seen the public school debating club techniques deployed en masse.

I have no doubt that opponents have varied and valid reasons to not support the vote.
I did notice their main technique was shifting the debate to topics beyond the bill's scope.
Thankfully, this was rapidly pointed out, but it didn't prevent its re-use during subsequent press conferences.

Yep. You'd have thought the motion was "this house believes the NHS should have really shit palliative care" or something.

[Crabcakes]

The palliative care thing is a red herring - because as mentioned so many people misunderstand what it is (or, rather, what it can do even at best). They assume that the existing choice is pain-free and comfortable then die eventually, or die sooner, and as such can’t understand why someone would voluntarily choose die sooner. In fact, I even suspect this is what some MPs probably think.

Also, I’m intrigued to know what the people who are concerned about the sick and elderly being pressured into an early death think happens now. Do they really believe that as it’s not a legal option, these hypothetical villainous relatives just sit back and give their rich old grandpas a lovely, dignified last few years? Because if you think people are nasty enough to take advantage of assisted dying, I think it’s fair to say they’ll already be dabbling in a bit of elder abuse and/or dereliction of care already.

(If anything, given the safeguards and interviews, this is more likely to stop some instances of abuse than open the door to them as and when any coercive relatives are caught out.)

[kreuzberger]

Our under-pressure Grandpa in this instance is going to need to be a bloody good actor, too, if he is going to convince two presumably rather seasoned doctors and a High Court judge that he really does want to be fast tracked outta here.

Hypothetically, just about anything is possible. Practically, it is just nonsense.

[Tubby Isaacs]

It's amazing how palliative care was barely mentioned a couple of months ago, but now apparently it's scandalously bad. Funny old game.

[mattomac]

Like Turkey joining the EU.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Abbot's still going. Doctors going to kill people because it's cheaper than putting them in a hospice.

Is that how budgeting works? Doctors personally pay for hospices?

[Bones McCoy]

Abbot's still going. Doctors going to kill people because it's cheaper than putting them in a hospice.

Is that how budgeting works? Doctors personally pay for hospices?

Yeah, I heard it comes straight out of their weekly vodka money.
Bloke on the bus told me that.

[Tubby Isaacs]

This was the top story on The Guardian yesterday when I checked.

New plan would ‘transform’ end of life care for 100,000 in England and Wales
Palliative care commission set up to provide high-quality, holistic support following assisted dying vote

Who's setting this up? The Health Secretary? Nope. Apparently Rachel Maskell, a backbench MP who opposes assisted dying very strongly and has offensively described it as a "duty to die".

That's not a "commission". That's a pressure group.