Mailwatch(ed) Forum

It is bound to happen at some stage - these Red Wallers finally seeing through the comedy toff and realising that he is a fundamentally nasty bit of work who is anything but on their side.

Perhaps the wider reporting of this latest mask slippage will be some sort of catalyst. It should be, but only a fool would hold their breath.

I dunno. As the last election showed, English coalfields have moved on. A pretty long way.

Not just the Durham seats which switched last time. The Tories got 68% in Cannock Chase in 2019, for example.

Jez made a lot of attending the Durham Miners Gala, and did really badly in Durham.

davidjay wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:55 pm And Wilson closed more...

"Ah, but you're not allowed to say that."

From https://zelo-street.blogspot.com/2021/0 ... usted.html

Yes, it’s the old Tory Comparative Pit Closures Ploy, with Calgie sneering “For some reason, Labour is less willing to acknowledge Harold Wilson’s much greater role in closing British coal mines”. But in the late 60s and mid 70s, full employment was Government policy: those who had worked in the mines could walk out the pit and into another decently paid job. By the 1983-4 miners’ strike, unemployment was well above THREE MILLION.

Bit like you're not supposed to point out that (a) from the Beeching Report, Labour closed more miles of railway line than the Tories did and (b) more electrification happened under Thatcher than any subsequent Prime Minister.

I’m not getting all this ‘Johnson’s mask has slipped’ and he’s blown it in the Red Wall over his eco mine closure remarks. He’s just being his usual self.

Agreed.

Red Wall Tories are uneasy. I’m guessing if their constituents think Johnson is talking bollocks about them, what else does he talk bollocks about?

Youngian wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 11:15 am I’m not getting all this ‘Johnson’s mask has slipped’ and he’s blown it in the Red Wall over his eco mine closure remarks. He’s just being his usual self.

Yes of course and in all honesty will this make much of a difference?

It depends. Opinions are always on a spectrum from utter dislike to slavish loyalty. The job is to push (nudge) the median position to a place where there are more people against than for - this incident will have some effect, and taken with other things (evading isolation, for example) may well be working in our favour.

Of course we are working against the public's short memory span and the assorted dead cats (or dachshunds) chucked out by the supportive media.

The Weeping Angel wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 6:04 pm

Youngian wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 11:15 am I’m not getting all this ‘Johnson’s mask has slipped’ and he’s blown it in the Red Wall over his eco mine closure remarks. He’s just being his usual self.

Yes of course and in all honesty will this make much of a difference?

Not a jot, I would imagine.

"Masks slipping and not a jot", exactly. But, this time, things are slightly different insofar as mainstream media - even the BBC!!!! - have reported Slug-Boy's latest antics.

People get mightily miffed when that find out that they have been taken for mugs all along. Even the jokes lose their lustre.

Malcolm Armsteen wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 6:54 pm ... the assorted dead cats (or dachshunds) ...

Aye, of all the service personnel going "home", it's the German Shepherds they'll miss the most.

Boiler wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:53 pm

The Weeping Angel wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 6:04 pm

Youngian wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 11:15 am I’m not getting all this ‘Johnson’s mask has slipped’ and he’s blown it in the Red Wall over his eco mine closure remarks. He’s just being his usual self.

Yes of course and in all honesty will this make much of a difference?

Not a jot, I would imagine.

It's all a long time ago, now. The miners of the time have (mostly) retired, their children have moved away or have never known anything except minimum wage in a warehouse/call centre/restaurant and they're happy to blame the foreigns for their low pay.

davidjay wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 10:42 pm It's all a long time ago, now. The miners of the time have (mostly) retired, their children have moved away or have never known anything except minimum wage in a warehouse/call centre/restaurant and they're happy to blame the foreigns for their low pay.

Mining ceased to be a major employer by the time Thatcher left office (we can argue about the definition of "major" and also the precise date if you insist). For 14 years I lived in Sherburn, Co. Durham. Some of the locals still referred to themselves as "pit-yackers". they were being ironic, the pit closed in 1974 and any former miners were drawing their pension. When I attended the celebrated Miner's Gala I brought the average age down (I was in my 40s at the time), everybody else under 50 was at the fun fair next door. For the young in the former coalfields, the miners' strike and mining in general are just grandad's stories, Beamish and history lessons about TB and pit explosions.

Devil's Advocate, signing in. How does this square with the inter-generational rivalries, and often visceral loathing, which persists within some working class communities? Often, when you can find someone who actually knows the tale, it goes back to an injurious episode - real or imagined - while Noah was still boarding passengers on the ark.

Or, are we simply back to leopards eating faces?

kreuzberger wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 3:41 pm Devil's Advocate, signing in. How does this square with the inter-generational rivalries, and often visceral loathing, which persists within some working class communities? Often, when you can find someone who actually knows the tale, it goes back to an injurious episode - real or imagined - while Noah was still boarding passengers on the ark.

Or, are we simply back to leopards eating faces?

It's partly a leopard/face interaction but there are other reasons. At the time of the miners' strike industrial communities were still quite insular and there wasn't much population drift. Stories were handed down the generation - I still recall family tales from over a hundred years ago - and emneties likewise.

Now, things are different. People have moved away, they don't get the oral history handed down and most of what they learn about their family home is via the media.

Johnson's personal ratings are awful (worse in net terms than Starmer's), but party lead remains pretty stable.



That's almost certainly enough votes to win a working majority, even if the Non Tories have a good combined vote share. Heroic tactical voting would be required. Likely there are too many Con-leaning LDs and sundry unreconcilables (see eg the 4,954 Green voters in Stroud in 2019).

I don't think I've ever seen the SNP get 6% before. They got over half the vote in Scotland in 2015 and got under 5%. I think that must be an outlier.

Another way of looking at that poll is that it's an improvement on 2019, when the Tories beat Labour by 11.5%. The swing from 2019 would be about the same as Jez achieved in his 2017 victory.

But they'll stick with him.