Mailwatch(ed) Forum

Squealer is saying that Starmer should be making Labour support for the "Plan B" measures conditional on an immediate hike in statutory sick pay.

Can anyone spot the tactical flaw in doing this ?

Squealer really is the world's oldest teenager, the permanently pissed off activist who'd walk away from a speech by Churchill or Marc Antony, complaining that "they didn't say anything about Nicaragua".

Abernathy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:14 pm Squealer is saying that Starmer should be making Labour support for the "Plan B" measures conditional on an immediate hike in statutory sick pay.

Can anyone spot the tactical flaw in doing this ?

That if the government loses, we don't get any of the sensible stuff and lots of people probably die?

Labour can still in an amendment though.

No doubt there'll be loads of shite online from those who like to call Starmer 'Kieth' or such hilarious epithets as "the Starmer Quiff Quisling" (oh, my aching sides).

I'm trying to imagine what that speech would be with its previous leader in this situation.

Youngian wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:09 pm
Johnson’s unnecessary presidential addresses are another tactical blunder. Its a level playing field freebie for the LOTO. Fine if its Corbyn.

I was surprised that Johnson gave Corbyn two debates, but I suppose he was already dodging Andrew Neil. Big risk of repeating Cameron's mistake with elevating Nick Clegg to an equal, and Jez did pretty well, I thought. But all Johnson had to do really was get his lines out.

Johnson's presidential addresses have worked well for him so far, I think. Even lots of people who would vote for him again tmrw think he's a lightweight, so it's very helpful for him to appear looking serious alongside the Chief Medical Officer.

But I think it's wearing thin now.

Tubby Isaacs wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:01 pm Johnson's presidential addresses have worked well for him so far, I think.

I keep hearing this phrase "presidential address"; to me it's no different to the PPBs I saw as a lad with Heath, Wilson and Callaghan. Dunno why we suddenly call them "presidential addresses" now, unless it's because of the flags that were absent back then.

PPBs are more party political. Obviously, Johnson's very alert to the party politics, but it's not like he can come out in the middle of them and slag Labour off directly.

Tubby Isaacs wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:18 pm PPBs are more party political. Obviously, Johnson's very alert to the party politics, but it's not like he can come out in the middle of them and slag Labour off directly.

I was more thinking not of the PPBs per se, but the announcements that were sometimes made: I don't remember Wilson's "devaluation of the pound" one but I'm pretty sure I can remember Heath and the three-day week stuff? Sort of like below:

Abernathy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:47 pm
To sum up, his job in this broadcast, in the current political climate, was to appear more Prime Ministerial than the crook that is currently actually occupying the post.

With Johnson’s lies and corruption unravelling ever more by the day, this was easily job done.

Yebbut red tory with no policies (sayeth the Facebook meme pages I browsed earlier today, I was wondering what had got them buzzing).

While Johnson may like the idea of looking Presidential, it’s a double-edged sword because these little addresses are always to deliver bad news - and for Funtime Boris that also inevitably means breaking promises as well. So he gets to look like the leader he isn’t, but the cost is pissing off the people he needs to keep him where he is by making his duplicity public.

I’m all for them

I have a suggestion for the first PMQs of the new year.

Keir should say something like "Mr Speaker, it has now been a full year since we left the European Union, would the Prime Minister care to inform the House exactly when the NHS can expect to start receiving their extra £350 million per week?"

Pause

"Or was that just another lie?"

I expect the Daily Mail defence will be deployed - "no reasonable person would believe it."

Although I expect it'll be another rehash of Captain Hindsight, they jabber we jab, we're way ahead on vaccination because we don't have to wait on the EMA, they'd have us in lockdown.... do I have to continue?

And all the performing seals behind will bray and clap.

Which really, is every PMQ I've seen for the last twelve months.

@Boiler Do you really have to, after every post saying what someone would like to see happen, jump straight in with the negative vibes and state the bleeding obvious? We all know what the reaction of the gammon scarecrow and his performing toddlers would be. It's still a good idea to keep fresh in people's minds just what a fucking liar Johnson is, and to get people thinking about all the things they were promised would happen post-Brexit, none of which have happened yet.

It's called being realistic. We can all hope that Starmer will land a knockout blow on Johnson, but Johnson has much of the Fourth Estate and the electorate on side. I see little point in perpetuating false hope.

Whatever Kier says at PMQs gets widely reported.

It's not about "perpetuating false hope". It's not about the predictable schoolboy gibes and farmyard noises. It's about reminding the people who the architects of their problems are.

The constant drip-drip-drip of anti-Johnson and anti-Tory truth will get through to people. So what if a chunk of the press is in bed with the Tories? The Tories don't control the press, no matter what the Tories might think, and the press can, and do, turn on the Tories when it suits them.

It's not "perpetuating false hope", merely the Leader of the Opposition doing his job.

Boiler wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:58 pm It's called being realistic. We can all hope that Starmer will land a knockout blow on Johnson, but Johnson has much of the Fourth Estate and the electorate on side. I see little point in perpetuating false hope.

That’s why a Tory government has to become five times as shite as a Labour government on a bad day before the penny drops. Or why a Labour leader has to be twice as good as a Tory. Or why a Labour MP can’t even afford to muck up an expense claim or will be held up as just the same as Owen Paterson. Yes life’s unfair like that but that’s why the Tories are in power to keep it that way.

And by constantly exposing their venality we can win through.

I think the important thing right now is to have a sense of perspective right now. Yes things are going well at the moment but there was a period when Milliband was doing well and look how that turned out, but at the same time stating it's all going to go wrong isn't helpful either.

I'm sick of negativity and defeatism, too.

The Weeping Angel wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 11:28 pm I think the important thing right now is to have a sense of perspective right now. Yes things are going well at the moment but there was a period when Milliband was doing well and look how that turned out, but at the same time stating it's all going to go wrong isn't helpful either.

Point taken, a week’s a long time etc. but it gets harder to see any dry land for Johnson to sail to. Speaking of which