Mailwatch(ed) Forum

Andy McDandy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:06 am Problem is that depth of feeling is all well and good, but your SWP activist in their German army shirt and scratty jumper still has the same number of votes as Mr Thicky-Sun-Bacon Banjo-Essex Boy McThickface.

And the thing that a lot of Corbyn's fans never grasped is, these 2 people probably have more in common than they realise or care to admit. Starmer is at least trying to talk to them and get them to see that Labour values are actually their values and what they care about, and Tory values - even the ones that seem absolutely aligned with prejudices the Tories have previously blown out of all proportion - are in reality a con trick that will leave them worse off. Corbyn - and by extension his followers - preferred the "wrong electorate" tactic that boiled down to telling anyone who didn't vote for him that they were at fault for not recognising the genius of his vision and just had to try harder.

Crabcakes wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:48 am

Andy McDandy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:06 am Problem is that depth of feeling is all well and good, but your SWP activist in their German army shirt and scratty jumper still has the same number of votes as Mr Thicky-Sun-Bacon Banjo-Essex Boy McThickface.

And the thing that a lot of Corbyn's fans never grasped is, these 2 people probably have more in common than they realise or care to admit. Starmer is at least trying to talk to them and get them to see that Labour values are actually their values and what they care about, and Tory values - even the ones that seem absolutely aligned with prejudices the Tories have previously blown out of all proportion - are in reality a con trick that will leave them worse off. Corbyn - and by extension his followers - preferred the "wrong electorate" tactic that boiled down to telling anyone who didn't vote for him that they were at fault for not recognising the genius of his vision and just had to try harder.

And what they still can't grasp is that many of us have the impression that they believe you should have to pass some sort of exam to be a socialist. "Fuck off and vote Tory" will take a lot of living down.

To be honest at one point he said the only paper he trusted and would speak to was the Morning Star, which must have been a bit of a two fingers up to the Mirror, I personally wouldn’t speak to the Sun and I agree with some of the Liverpool MPs who aren’t happy about it.

However when the opposition seem incompetent of running the country I’d rather our fire was aimed elsewhere same goes for the £15 wage rise, the rule change moaning and pretty much anything else.

The 28bn for Green stuff was the best thing to come out.

Johnson won’t be happy about Starmer’s speech rating better, given popularity is his only measure of personal success

Crabcakes wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:03 pm Johnson won’t be happy about Starmer’s speech rating better, given popularity is his only measure of personal success

Neither will the Corbynistas BTL on The Graun, they who still insist Starmer is a boring Tory-lite that paradoxically doesn't stand for anything

Crabcakes wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:03 pm Johnson won’t be happy about Starmer’s speech rating better, given popularity is his only measure of personal success

Astonishing.
Interesting and Strong I can understand. Any PM's speech is interesting to anybody sufficiently political to bother watching it and Johnson is undeniably in a strong position, given that he's a vote winner for a party whose unifying purpose is being in power.
But, as for the rest, where the hell is the evidence for any of those?

49% of respondents think he's competent?

Have I landed in some alternative reality?

Oboogie wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:07 pm

Crabcakes wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:03 pm Johnson won’t be happy about Starmer’s speech rating better, given popularity is his only measure of personal success

Astonishing.
Interesting and Strong I can understand. Any PM's speech is interesting to anybody sufficiently political to bother watching it and Johnson is undeniably in a strong position, given that he's a vote winner for a party whose unifying purpose is being in power.
But, as for the rest, where the hell is the evidence for any of those?

I'm astonished by the numbers for "In touch with ordinary people" seeing as he was complaining about a six figure salary being too paltry for his lifestyle, and also the numbers for "Cares about ordinary people" after his "let the bodies pile high" comment.

Christ knows how to explain it other than people don't listen and are very attached to initial impressions, or at least deep-rooted impressions born of the foggy 'back then'. Charitably people are optimists, uncharitably they're idiots who all think they're exempt from the toff's snobbery.

Do people prefer a strong confident leader over one that’s ‘a laugh?’ Not convinced the English have suddenly had a bang on the head and wants to be taken seriously as a country again.

"Voters think Sir Keir Starmer came across more competent, in touch and agreeable in his conference speech than Boris Johnson managed today, an exclusive poll for Sky News reveals."

https://news.sky.com/story/voters-think ... 24UwjqmM0I

Youngian wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 5:44 pm Do people prefer a strong confident leader over one that’s ‘a laugh?’ Not convinced the English have suddenly had a bang on the head and wants to be taken seriously as a country again.

It may also be that with a few elderly relatives dead from covid, kids whose education has been clusterfucked from orbit, job losses, credit cuts, and no petrol, the laughing has now stopped.

Crabcakes wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:13 am

Youngian wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 5:44 pm Do people prefer a strong confident leader over one that’s ‘a laugh?’ Not convinced the English have suddenly had a bang on the head and wants to be taken seriously as a country again.

It may also be that with a few elderly relatives dead from covid, kids whose education has been clusterfucked from orbit, job losses, credit cuts, and no petrol, the laughing has now stopped.

Nah, that's all the fault of Woke Remoaners hiding behind their sofas.

Judging by profiles and photos, and with the caveat that it's probably not a representative sample, if my Twitter feed is any guide:

Typical remainer traits: educated, white collar or student, young, city or country dweller, BAME, female, disabled, creative, healthcare/public worker, interest in music/arts, makes arguments, literate.

Typical leaver traits: white, middle aged, suburban/small town, self employed/private sector, low education, public school, interest in sports, claims to be ex-forces/emergency services, dismisses arguments with smackdowns/insults.

Oboogie wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 5:50 pm "Voters think Sir Keir Starmer came across more competent, in touch and agreeable in his conference speech than Boris Johnson managed today, an exclusive poll for Sky News reveals."

https://news.sky.com/story/voters-think ... 24UwjqmM0I

"Yebbut he wrote a boring 14,000 word essay and I still don't know what he stands for!"

Passionate interview on Sky. Strongest attack on Johnson yet.

Did anyone see News at 9 on BBC2 this morning?

Victoria Derbyshire interviewed a pig farmer who was faced with slaughtering her own stock and discarding the meat, and absolutely seething.

She called Johnson "a buffoon", and told him to come to her farm in Cumbria and see the situation and her working conditions for himself, if he thought that she was addicted to cheap labour.

If Johnson has lost the BBC - which he seems to be doing - he's really up shit creek.

Sky News are now blaming it openly on Johnson and his Brexit deal.

Johnson seems to be losing everyone. Even the Adam Smith Institute and Tory think-tank Bright Blue have turned on him (Grauniad article posted in the "Worst Prime Minister" thread).

Interesting numbers here. Is Sir Keir really doing it all wrong?

The poor-looking performance among Remainers with Labour reflects Labour voters supporting the Greens now. I'm reasonably relaxed about that.