Mailwatch(ed) Forum

Totally normal behaviour from Jackie here.

Is this a cheap gotcha? The conference stunt was.

Tubby Isaacs wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:40 pm Totally normal behaviour from Jackie here.

I genuinely have no idea what point she's trying to make there.

Tubby Isaacs wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:40 pm Totally normal behaviour from Jackie here.

I can't help but think that the people who are generalising about the police would be shouting the loudest if Muslims, or blacks, or gays were treated in the same way.

Calling for a £15 minimum wage is bold now apparently

https://labourlist.org/2021/09/a-10-min ... -required/

There is no better time for a pay rise. Wage stagnation in the last decade is the worst it’s been since the Napoleonic wars and working-class families are being squeezed from every angle by towering rents, cuts to Universal Credit, the national insurance tax rise and rising energy prices. The Labour leadership’s position is not commensurate with fairness for working-class families. A £10 an hour minimum wage was bold at one time – but will be lower than the Tory £10.50 minimum wage by the time of the next election in 2024. As new polling by Survation shows, voters are ready for something much bolder.

Andy McDonald was right to resign from the shadow cabinet this week. As billionaires have dramatically increased their wealth over the pandemic, their money multiplying as they sunbathe on their private yachts, the lowest paid have toiled to keep our society running for very little reward. We all stood outside our homes and clapped for them – but ultimately that falls painfully short of what they are owed. Like everyone in our society, they deserve the dignity of a decent home, a well-paid job and security from the chaos of the market. Labour under Keir Starmer cannot seriously claim to be the party of ‘working families’ if his minimum wage offer would fail to provide that for them.

Problem is it won’t be enacted for another three years anyhow…

As said before on the minimum wage, it was a policy he seemed fine with when putting together the policy with Rayner in the lead up to conference, seemed fine with on Saturday and then all of a sudden by Monday (after the rule changes had passed) he wasn’t

As with nationalisation it’s just a slogan, why not £20 or £25 keep going knock yourself out at £40 or £50 might as well as the way they are acting, we’ve got zero chance of even a hung Parliament.

As for Jackie Walker…. Meh

This all has shades of the 1950 Tory conference where someone plucked the number 300,000 out of the air as an annual new homes target. No-one knew what the figure was based on or how achievable it might be. It was just a number that looked and sounded impressive. And it was a very rare example of a Tory conference forcing policy on the leadership.
Plot twist: Harold MacMillan made his name as housing minister but acheiving and then exceeding this arbitary target.

mattomac wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 1:18 am Problem is it won’t be enacted for another three years anyhow…

As said before on the minimum wage, it was a policy he seemed fine with when putting together the policy with Rayner in the lead up to conference, seemed fine with on Saturday and then all of a sudden by Monday (after the rule changes had passed) he wasn’t

As with nationalisation it’s just a slogan, why not £20 or £25 keep going knock yourself out at £40 or £50 might as well as the way they are acting, we’ve got zero chance of even a hung Parliament.

As for Jackie Walker…. Meh

To me it seems myopic, reactionary and in a way "Tory". Because it's stuck on this idea of personal wealth = freedom so the wealthier you are, the more free you should be (in theory).

However, what if there's no job security? What if the increased wage causes even more applicants to apply for your role so the moment you under perform, you're chucked in the bin? A higher minimum wage won't do you good if you're out on your arse and having to live on UC for god knows how long.

It's reactionary because it's a demand for a higher wage due to the cost of living continuing to increase, but they seem to think this will happen in a vacuum and have no knock on effect to cost of living. I'll try not to dwell too much on Hayekian theories about inflation arms races, but why aren't they kicking up a fuss about the broader spectrum of price controls? That would be another of way of increasing consumer spending power without putting us on the pathway to Zimbabwe or the Weimar Republic.

They don't do trade offs. Everything Labour members decide just happens and works.

It's good to be ambitious with targets you control, but something like this involves businesses taking decisions. about what they can make to work. If business doesn't trust you at all, it won't invest.

I think Starmer said he wouldn't speak to them in the leadership campaign, didn't he?

The Morning Star is more popular with her lot, isn't it? May not be so popular with Syrians.

The Weeping Angel wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:59 am Calling for a £15 minimum wage is bold now apparently

https://labourlist.org/2021/09/a-10-min ... -required/

There is no better time for a pay rise. Wage stagnation in the last decade is the worst it’s been since the Napoleonic wars and working-class families are being squeezed from every angle by towering rents, cuts to Universal Credit, the national insurance tax rise and rising energy prices. The Labour leadership’s position is not commensurate with fairness for working-class families. A £10 an hour minimum wage was bold at one time – but will be lower than the Tory £10.50 minimum wage by the time of the next election in 2024. As new polling by Survation shows, voters are ready for something much bolder.

Andy McDonald was right to resign from the shadow cabinet this week. As billionaires have dramatically increased their wealth over the pandemic, their money multiplying as they sunbathe on their private yachts, the lowest paid have toiled to keep our society running for very little reward. We all stood outside our homes and clapped for them – but ultimately that falls painfully short of what they are owed. Like everyone in our society, they deserve the dignity of a decent home, a well-paid job and security from the chaos of the market. Labour under Keir Starmer cannot seriously claim to be the party of ‘working families’ if his minimum wage offer would fail to provide that for them.

The policy is £10 now, not in 2024.

Huge benefit of the doubt given to the Tories there. It's £8.91 now. Are they going to get it to £10.50?

If the Labour leader is to cut through the cynicism and apathy that people in this country feel towards politicians – himself included – then we need leaders who are honest, principled and can put forward a vision for the country that serves the material interests of a majority.

How do the public feel about politicians who've never mentioned this £15 till they saw a chance to take a pop at Keith?

You know who else supported the McDonalds campaign (as a group of workers in London fighting a rich employer) and then backed a national £10 minimum wage? The exact same ones kicking off now.

Bold.

Corbyn would have been invited to talk to the Sun if he looked like a winner. Wasn't prepared to do what it took to become one, like reaching out to Sun readers.

Youngian wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:34 am Corbyn would have been invited to talk to the Sun if he looked like a winner. Wasn't prepared to do what it took to become one, like reaching out to Sun readers.

I find it interesting that Corbyn proposing to talk to Hamas is an example of his commitment to peace and justice, but Starmer writing an article in The Sun is a sign that he's history's greatest monster.

*I* am an elder statesman, willing to put past differences aside to work together with anyone towards peace and harmony
*You* are a sell-out, happy to throw away all their principles to chase a vote

Or alternatively:

*I* am only really interested in making myself look good to my equally simplistic peers, and I'm too stupid and arrogant to realise I'm being used by some genuine villains to legitimise themselves
*You* are attempting to reach out to a large pool of voters, and understand that it sometimes means compromise

Because:

*I* just like to complain rather than do any hard work, and when I did have the opportunity to make change I spent most of my time giving cushy jobs to my mates and getting one over on people I thought I was better than
*You* actually want to help people, not just tell them how sorry you are for them (assuming they aren't of a certain religion - because we know they're all faking it eh lads?)

Genius Sir Keir conference speech slashes Tory lead. Or something.

Youngian wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:34 am Corbyn would have been invited to talk to the Sun if he looked like a winner. Wasn't prepared to do what it took to become one, like reaching out to Sun readers.

I’m unsure about this, remember when he tried to walk away in a huff just because a journalist was from Sky News (and Magic Grandad then got stuck on a doorstep for 5 minutes trying to remember the entrance code)?

I never understood how he failed to grasp that openly sneering at a selected group of newspapers and channels comes over as openly sneering at their readers/viewers. I’m sure it played to the fanbase well though, and that’s all that really matters eh?

Problem is that depth of feeling is all well and good, but your SWP activist in their German army shirt and scratty jumper still has the same number of votes as Mr Thicky-Sun-Bacon Banjo-Essex Boy McThickface.