Mailwatch(ed) Forum

Gaffe prone backbenchers are inevitable, how the leader deals with it is the focus. Starmer doesn’t piss about so points to him.

It's straightforward enough, there's a policy of zero tolerance, just as there is with anti-Semitism.

I think she was correct.

James O'Brien tackled the story on his show. Several black callers plus one Jewish and one Asian were unanimous in calling out the remark as racist and praising Labour for their prompt action in tackling it.
Mysteriously, not one white person rang up to explain why they were wrong.
As Weeping Angel says, Starmer gets the points.
It also provides a sharp contrast to how the Party under Corbyn dealt with racism - heel dragging, excuses and even denial.

You can listen to it here, the segment starts at about 47.30 minutes in.

I know what my Black Girls Group would have said.

It would have referenced popular American biscuits. And they would have applauded Huq.

It is of course, perfectly possible for Starmer to have recognised that Huq’s remarks actually made a valid point - in spite of his condemnation of them for public consumption as having been racist - and also to have recognised the necessity, given Labour’s current favourable positioning in advance of the election and the need to protect it, of acting swiftly and ruthlessly in punishing Huq for ill-considered remarks, shockingly badly timed.

I agree the timing was bad, even inexcusable.

But Kwarteng is a biscuit.

Malcolm Armsteen wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:23 pm I agree the timing was bad, even inexcusable.

But Kwarteng is a biscuit.

Indeed. Incidentally, on O’Brien’s show there was also at least one young black woman caller who eloquently made the point that Andy McDandy also did upthread, viz ::

one would expect a member of a demographic section that has generally got the shitty end of the stick in this country to have some empathy for others in that position*. Not to see all black people as victims, or in need of help, but to acknowledge that for the most part you're starting from a different place.

Not to see all black people as victims, or in need of help, but to acknowledge that for the most part you're starting from a different place.

You have no idea how many times I have had that conversation...

Malcolm Armsteen wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:23 pm I agree the timing was bad, even inexcusable.

But Kwarteng is a biscuit.

Why don't you just call him an Uncle Tom?

I think there’s 3 things at play here really:

1. Regardless of intent/clumsy wording or whatever, Huq said something that straight out reads as saying a person behaved differently to how she would expect them to based on their race. That leaves very little to defend, and it was a monumental foot in mouth incident.
2. The Labour Party had to take action, because if they didn’t at best they’d be accused of hypocrisy, and at worst every claim to have moved on from Corbyn would unravel - because what if the next person decides to have a go at someone for their ‘Zionist’ behaviour?
3. While you might agree or disagree with the point Huq says she was trying to make, people of colour have said they found the way she said what she tried to say offensive and racist. And that can’t be dismissed.

In the end, she played the man, not the ball. And it doesn’t matter if the man is a scheming, grasping, right-wing tosser - he’s not obliged to not be any of those things just because of the amount of melanin in his skin.

Precisely.

The Weeping Angel wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 10:06 pm

Malcolm Armsteen wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:23 pm I agree the timing was bad, even inexcusable.

But Kwarteng is a biscuit.

Why don't you just call him an Uncle Tom?

Indeed, why not. My Black Girls Group would have no hesitation.

We are told the cabinet is 'the most diverse'. We are told it is wonderful that there are people of colour in it. That is aspirational, motivating, enabling, empowering.

Except it fucking well isn't unless you had the money and clout to buy into white privilege - or seem to.

If Kwarteng just got on with it, ok. But when he's put up as a token black person then no. Not ok.

This is something I worked with all my professional life. The number of times I sat with black kids and their parents and we tried to explain to them that no, the playing field isn't level, they had barriers to overcome, that wouldn't exist if they had £110k a year and the parents nodded in agreement, sadly...

Sometimes I had that conversation with kids who had been arrested on the grounds of their racial profile. The boy who was taken in for questioning over a rape on four separate occasions because he was black like the rapist even though the victim stated several times it wasn't him. Does that happen to lads from Eton, or Harrow? It does to kids in central Wandsworth. The kid who was arrested for being in a phone box... the girls who suddenly found the jobs they had applied for didn't exist.

There are still thousands of kids in our society who get a raw deal on the grounds of the colour of their skin. On the other hand there are kids who sail through life on a sea of money and privilege. Those circles don't overlap except in the very occasional cases like Kwarteng, and when I see him I can't help seeing the other circle.

Malcolm Armsteen wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 10:49 pm

The Weeping Angel wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 10:06 pm

Malcolm Armsteen wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:23 pm I agree the timing was bad, even inexcusable.

But Kwarteng is a biscuit.

Why don't you just call him an Uncle Tom?

Indeed, why not. My Black Girls Group would have no hesitation.

Or you could call him a house n*****r

You could if you want.

Or you could grow up a bit. Get a bit of time in working with disadvantaged black kids, eh?

Malcolm Armsteen wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:03 pm You could if you want.

Or you could grow up a bit. Get a bit of time in working with disadvantaged black kids, eh?

Are you a better at being a black man than Kwasi Kwarteng Malcolm.

Don't be a twat. And it's Malcolm.

You have absolutely no idea - and I suspect you never will have - of the kinds of insights you achieve working and being involved with a group of people over the course of nearly 40 years. But no, I never forgot my white privilege. I used it to advocate.

Do you know what Malcolm you just cannot see what Rupa Huq said was wrong you see it as wrong because of the timing I see it as wrong becasue it was racist. That Peep Show clip I posted whilst a parody is very revealing of your attitude.