Mailwatch(ed) Forum

davidjay wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 11:31 pm And therein lies another area of mystery to me. I have never in my life had any dealings with a trans of either sex so where, and I say this without being flippant, do they all come from?

I suspect you probably have - even if, say, just in the sense of being served by someone working in a shop - but may not have realised or noticed they are trans. Because the vast majority of trans people (a) want to pass as male/female because becoming who they feel they really are is pretty much the whole point, and (b) just want to get on with their lives in peace.

For example, there's a trans woman who works in my local costa. The only reason I know she is trans is because when she first started working there she'd only just started transitioning and it was harder for her to pass. Now though, a year or so later, she just looks like what she is - a young woman working in a shop, as opposed to a perverted sex predator desperate to get into women's loos.

As to 'where they come from', part of this is the whole 'why were there no left handed people in victorian times?' factor on the one side, and confirmation bias/press amplification on the other. People are more likely to feel able to come out as trans in our somewhat more enlightened times, but in the short term thanks to Tory culture wars and desperate searching for moral panic scapegoats any person or issue relating to trans rights/activists gets more attention by default. Plus even if being trans is irrelevant to a news story it gets thrown in, in the same way the Mail throws in how much the home of a murder victim was worth or if someone they don't like happens to be 'openly gay'.

Alack and hey nonny, the Queen of Gender Critical has declared herself insufficiently appeased.



I suspect we have a ‘politically homeless’ incoming. She can hardly vote SNP or Lib Dem after all.

Any crumbling fragment of dignity attached to the pretence of liberal respectability flew South for the winter long ago, but it may be time for the forum hive mid to formally abandon the ‘Rowling merely has legitimate concerns’ position. Honestly kids, it’s the grown up thing to do.

Not sure about a hive mind here. I and others are of the opinion that you know who you are better than anyone else. Others may disagree. I'm also of the opinion that Rowling has both an overinflated reputation, and opinion of herself. Book sales alone don't mean quality. As the late Richard Harris said about Michael Caine, she passes off her myriad limitations as pious virtues.

So who's in this forum hive mind then?

Ach, belated apologies. Product of wine and frustration (and not even with the present discourse as such). ‘Hive mind’ was a cheap shot. Begging pardon signors.

I do think there’s a tendency to be a little too forgiving Rowling-wise, based on that old statement of hers and without taking account of what might politely be called ‘developments’ in terms of her present rhetoric (she’s been referring to trans women as TIMs - trans-identified males - for a while now) but that can be chit-chatted over without flinging insults. Mostly. You’d hope.

Which brings us neatly to…



This is why I thought it was a mistake to offer her a meeting at all. Fine, if you’re asked about it - which you’re inevitably going to be - have some boilerplate handy; ‘We are disappointed that a longtime supporter feels she has been let down on this issue. The Labour party believes that a balance can be struck between the protection of women’s spaces and the dignity of transgender people, just as we are sure JK Rowling does’ and blah blah blah. Rinse. Repeat. A nothing statement, but by making the offer of a pow wow they’ve opened themselves up to precisely this sort of nonsense; Rowling generously allowing that Reeves/An Other may be allowed into her presence, but only on condition that…

I would hope that nothing’s going to come of it anyhow. It’s not as if the government-in-waiting doesn’t have better things to do than scrambling to organise meetings with obscure anti-trans pressure groups, or trying to persuade Rayner into a grovelling apology for statements she shouldn’t remotely have to apologise for.

She's the current equivalent of Hamster Woman and the other Christian fundies: no concession will ever be enough.

This absolutely incredible, I vaguely remembered Nina Power from The Guardian. A left anarchist apparently.. She got into transphobia, and has gone nuts and incredibly bigoted. And a bankrupt.

(Don't) go woke, go broke.

Oh the Nina Power story is wild. Turner has WhatsApp chats between her and her equally dodgy mate Daniel Miller which contain some pretty ripe material.



I suspect you have to go some to get dumped by the Telegraph these days, but this really ought to do it.

And just to add another layer of relevance to the thread topic…

The PEZ was cooked up by various Prussian and Russian secret police types mainly by ripping off Machiavelli and other authors. It was published in 1903, and exposed as a hoax in the 20s. That's all.

Philip Marlow wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 1:20 am Any crumbling fragment of dignity attached to the pretence of liberal respectability flew South for the winter long ago, but it may be time for the forum hive mid to formally abandon the ‘Rowling merely has legitimate concerns’ position. Honestly kids, it’s the grown up thing to do.

I thought calling yourself trans was exactly what they wanted to happen. You have to identify as a "man in a dress" now?

Good little thread from Roz Kaveney.



I’ve been thinking a wee bit about the radicalisation pipeline recently, having just finished Naomi Klein’s latest which deals, in part with ‘Other Naomi’ (Wolf, with whom Klein was being semi-regularly confused on social media for a while) and her journey from bestselling mainstream liberal feminist author to COVID conspiracist and regular guest on right wing podcasts like Steve Bannon’s War Room. You do wonder how it it that some people become obsessively weird cranks on a single issue while others - Power being a pretty clear example - are just gone.

I’m guessing this isn’t going to come up the next time Stock gets a soft soap interview or a newspaper puff piece regarding the evil TRAs.



Truly, I thought she’d simply ignore the court judgement. ‘You can all fuck yourselves because my neo-nazi mate remains awesome’ is not the line I saw her going with.

Gamer culture again. If at first you don't succeed, reboot and try again. None of it's really real.

"Keep doing what you do, Nina"

Don't get it.

Fuckers who'd try to use their Controversial Opinions to shock people into admiring/shagging/avoiding them at university carry on having Controversial Opinions into later life. Because they don't really have opinions; they just pick up sets of talking points they believe work, and get very annoyed when anyone punches holes in their rather flimsy arguments.

They inevitably retreat into niche journalism (pamphlet scribbling) and live off family money/wingnut welfare, because fucking look at them, who'd fucking employ them? They will inevitably have some work experience (usually a term or two of teaching in a school for well-off types) which qualifies them as some sort of fucking authority.

And, speaking of wingnut welfare, where is Toby Young these days? I've heard nothing from him in yonks. Has he finally crawled back down into the sewer he slithered out of?

Andy McDandy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:53 am Fuckers who'd try to use their Controversial Opinions to shock people into admiring/shagging/avoiding them at university carry on having Controversial Opinions into later life. Because they don't really have opinions; they just pick up sets of talking points they believe work, and get very annoyed when anyone punches holes in their rather flimsy arguments.

I believe this is the RCP/Spiked modus operandi.

Claire Fox (yes, that one) has weighed in supportively underneath Stock’s tweet and is getting absolutely rinsed in the replies, my favourite of which is this one.