Mailwatch(ed) Forum

Shutting down anyone who questions the failed counter-productive war on drugs is British politics at its most cowardly and irresponsible.
Surprised Humza hasn’t been accused of nanny statism as prohibition is a defacto laissez-faire policy.
Cops in Scotland come down heavy on possession compared to England where Plod hardly bother chasing white people .

New Labour's downgrading of cannabis to class C represents one of the rare instances I can remember of a government pursuing something even vaguely approaching a sensible drug policy and even then they changed their bloody minds. Blair was quoted at the time as saying that "What we did was perfectly sensible but I think it sent out the wrong message" which, along with the sacking of David Nutt a few years later, pretty much put the tin lid on the idea that our political class could discuss the subject like adults.

There’s far more pragmatism among police forces and health authorities towards the drug problem in England than people realise, basically try what works under the radar until the Daily Mail finds out.
And most objectionable is politicians portraying anyone that challenges them as unhinged libertines when they refuse to even contemplate the damage prohibition has reaped.

And there you have the nub.

When any relaxation will be met with outrage, disgust and plain lies from the right-wing media it is very, very difficult to change the law on anything.

(See the Daily Telegraph today on Labour's plans to promote oracy in schools...)

As Baltimore’s Mayor Royce noted in the Wire: “If only we could call this shit something other than what it is.”

I've always thought that The Wire (and Treme come to think of it) benefitted immensely from David Simon's background in journalism.

I’m cynical. 48% of SNP members just voted for Kate Forbes. Aren’t a fair few of those going to be a bit sceptical of decriminalising heroin? As for SNP voters, when polled on gender reform, that didn’t exactly suggest pioneering progressivism either. See also the SNP Brexit voters.

That isn’t to me the sort of voter coalition to back this policy. But that coalition will probably back « England stopping us bad ».

Would it work? Scotland is so bad that it could hardly fail to do better, I suppose. But that’s not the best recommendation for a policy. Portugal does better than France, worse than Germany.

I wonder whether this is trying to distract from the fact that Scotland has the highest rate of drug deaths in Europe.

I wonder whether this is trying to distract from the fact that Scotland has the highest rate of drug deaths in Europe.

Who is trying to distract people from the high death rate and what is their motivation?
Several English health authorities (Mersyside, Cambridgeshire and Brighton have been dispensing dimorphine (pharmaceutical Heroin) over methadone for several decades. Methadone is awful and a lot of junkies sell it to buy Special Brew to tie them over.

I’m cynical. 48% of SNP members just voted for Kate Forbes. Aren’t a fair few of those going to be a bit sceptical of decriminalising heroin? As for SNP voters, when polled on gender reform, that didn’t exactly suggest pioneering progressivism either. See also the SNP Brexit voters.

The Labour leaning unionist newspapers have been sympathetic towards decriminalisation but there is no need to make a fanfare about this (see above about health authorities) if you discreetly change guidelines in office. With some added Mayor Royce bullshit about harm reduction. Driving courses for motor offenders instead of magistrates court never appeared in any manifesto and no party opposes this sensible option.

Youngian wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 10:11 pm

I wonder whether this is trying to distract from the fact that Scotland has the highest rate of drug deaths in Europe.

Who is trying to distract people from the high death rate and what is their motivation?
Several English health authorities (Mersyside, Cambridgeshire and Brighton have been dispensing dimorphine (pharmaceutical Heroin) over methadone for several decades. Methadone is awful and a lot of junkies sell it to buy Special Brew to tie them over.

The SNP and the motive is picking a fight with Westminster in order to draw people's attention from their record. I agree with you about Methadone however.

The SNP and the motive is picking a fight with Westminster in order to draw people's attention from their record.

That’s probably true but an illjudged issue to pick a fight on as it doesn’t align with the constitutional divide like taxation powers for eg.

It’s a talking point in response to Scotland having terrible drug deaths, so well chosen in that respect. Plus it’s a values issue- innovative Scotland v Daily Mail England. And it might work. So well chosen in those respects.

I think it’s probably too far ahead of floating voter opinion though, with a less persuasive FM to argue it,

Cops are more heavy handed towards drug possession in Scotland than England and may explain why Scotland has suffered from legal drug epidemics like injecting temazepam, harder to get any decent gear.

Youngian wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 10:03 pm Cops are more heavy handed towards drug possession in Scotland than England and may explain why Scotland has suffered from legal drug epidemics like injecting temazepam, harder to get any decent gear.

There's only one police force in Scotland, so I guess it's more uniform than England, but is it more heavy handed? If so, the Scottish Government can make that point without needing Westminster legislation. Have they?

Another MP heading for Alba? The SNP may not be entirely sad to see him go.

Alas he doesn't have time in this letter to set out what the SNP leadership should be doing on independence. He's palmed that one off on the members, which is what every charlatan always does. Or he could go one better than SNP members and fight as by-election on a "proper independence strategy" platform. (Though of course he's under no constitutional obligation to do so).

The independent MP Angus MacNeil will not return to the SNP group after his suspension expires, he has announced.

The Western Isles MP has criticised the party’s independence strategy, saying he will not return to the Westminster group until at least after the SNP conference in October if they provide “clarity on independence”, PA News reports.

In a letter he published on Twitter, MacNeil said:

I will only seek the SNP whip again if it is clear that the SNP are pursuing independence.

At the moment, the SNP has become a brand name missing the key ingredient. The urgency for independence is absent.

He added:

The Scottish government went to the supreme court a year ago utterly clueless about how to pursue independence, left the supreme court utterly clueless about how to pursue independence.

The SNP still have no clear understanding that it has to use elections to negotiate Scottish independence from Westminster by getting the backing of the majority of the electorate.

The SNP members must have a say at conference on the policy direction, which is hasn’t until now.

Does Alba have any purpose beyond Salmond’s vanity and a depositary for SNP malcontents?

Meanwhile the Orkneys have a different approach to getting Westminster off its back

Orkney could leave the UK to become a self-governing territory of Norway after its council opted to explore “alternative forms of governance”.
The archipelago off the north coast of Scotland will also consider changing its legal status within Britain as it seeks to provide more economic opportunities.
A motion has been put forward by the Orkney Islands council leader, James Stockan, to explore its “Nordic connections”, as well as looking at the governance structures of crown dependencies such as Guernsey, Jersey and the Isle of Man. https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... governance

There's certainly scope for two threads of Scottish Independence; one largely urban and socialist, one rural and Calvinist.
I don't think the SNP matches the rural Calvinist template.
Alba certainly won't unite a majority of urban Nats.

Maybe the awkward bedfellows muddle along inside the SNP hoping for successful referendum.
Meanwhile Alba provides a home for the hecklers, and contrarians.

Youngian wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 11:34 am Does Alba have any purpose beyond Salmond’s vanity and a depositary for SNP malcontents?

Meanwhile the Orkneys have a different approach to getting Westminster off its back

Orkney could leave the UK to become a self-governing territory of Norway after its council opted to explore “alternative forms of governance”.
The archipelago off the north coast of Scotland will also consider changing its legal status within Britain as it seeks to provide more economic opportunities.
A motion has been put forward by the Orkney Islands council leader, James Stockan, to explore its “Nordic connections”, as well as looking at the governance structures of crown dependencies such as Guernsey, Jersey and the Isle of Man. https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... governance

I read somewhere that Salmond did good work taking on the anti-Catholicism in the one strain of Scots Nationalism. Is that right? Whoever it was did a very effective job and deserves credit for it, for sure. Because that strain pretty much seems to have vanished to me. From my (admittedly distant perspective) Kate Forbes looks like an SNP Tim Farron rather than part of a continuous tradition.

I think the SNP, who nailed Ruth Davidson as rape clause Ruth, are going to make hay with Labour keepig the same clause. Now obviously, they're dishonest in their position that they can't do anything about it, but as I say, that isn't quite the point.

I've not quite bought the prediction of Labour getting 20 seats off them, and given the starting position, I'd guess that lots of those gains would be predicted to be small. Well, this won't help.

I think Labour has to prioritise seats in Scotland over ones in England. If Labour comes a good second, then it's much harder to argue that Scotland is so different to England so needs to be separated. That would make governing much easier.