Mailwatch(ed) Forum

What's this? Do they want to bring George Galloway back from the dead?

The average thick as pigshit Brit already thinks anyone a bit brown is the best buddy of Bin Laden and probably building a bomb in their bedroom. Do not give the opposition easy wins.

This is surely too strong though, isn't it?

Nope.

The final phrase "regardless of what they are" tells me that Starmer doesn't want any of his MPs to look like they're endorsing either side. And that is a very sensible move.

MET police are already investigating videos of today's demo in which people are allegedly filmed shouting "Death to the Jews" ("allegedly" because they are saying it in a language which I don't speak) and pledging to "hunt them down". People on Twitter are already making much of Corbyn's presence, the Right Wing press and the Tories would have a field day if a Labour MP or councillor were also there.

But there were tens of thousands of people there. Most people can tell the difference between those racists and the vast majority of the crowd. Nobody thinks Corbyn or any of the others are going to be running Labour again. I think this would be seen as a dirty trick by a government in extremely deep shit.

Tubby Isaacs wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 7:50 pm But there were tens of thousands of people there. Most people can tell the difference between those racists and the vast majority of the crowd. Nobody thinks Corbyn or any of the others are going to be running Labour again. I think this would be seen as a dirty trick by a government in extremely deep shit.

Maybe. But that is why it's so important that current Labour MPs don't associated with it.
And we're not talking about "most people", we're talking about the editors and readers of The Telegraph, Mail, Express and the viewers of GBNews. It would be, "Same old anti-Semitic Labour, supporting terrorism and hate crimes - don't forget Starmer wanted Corbyn to be Prime Minister!!"

Funnily enough the Express has stressed innocent civilians in Gaza in its coverage,

But people aren't getting their coverage just from those places. They'll have seen pictures of the size of the crowd.

Tubby Isaacs wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 8:04 pm Funnily enough the Express has stressed innocent civilians in Gaza in its coverage,

But people aren't getting their coverage just from those places. They'll have seen pictures of the size of the crowd.

Note how Sky chose to label this video. Now imagine the fuss they'd make if he was still Labour leader.

If OPEC cuts production in order to concentrate Western minds the government won’t have much oxygen left to score cheap point with Labour. It’s the quadrupling of oil prices during the Yom Kippur war that ultimately destroyed the Tory government in the 70s (albeit Ted Heath playing his hand very badly). At least this horrendous catastrophe may leave Sunak’s oil pumping posturing in tatters.

Yeah but that also ended up causing huge problems for Labour down the road.

Well, Bozo ddidn't tell anyone his care plan and got away with it. Be interested to see if Labour is allowed to. i don't quite get the House of Lords thing. Would certainly be a lot of unnecessary arguments, but the public would support it.

Labour do have a plan to improve the working conditions in the care sector, which would certainly be good.

I, for one, would prefer Labour to not remove imaginary proposals from an imaginary manifesto.

(Imaginary in the sense that it isn't the final, official, or whatever document).

Starmer has lost the support of the Muslim community

Are they going to go running into the arms of Corbyn?

Well according to the Finacial Times he's facing a mutiny

https://www.ft.com/content/7417ff05-fa1 ... c3407e166f

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https://www.ft.com/content/7417ff05-fa1 ... c3407e166f

Sir Keir Starmer is facing a growing mutiny from Labour councillors who have demanded the party change its position to condemn Israel over the deepening humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

The Labour leader is under pressure from council leaders, influential Muslim party members and sections of the left over his initially unqualified support for Israel’s right to defend itself after Hamas’s attack this month.

Starmer provoked anger among some in his party after he said Israel had the right to withhold power and water from Gaza, even as he said international law had to be respected.

The Israel-Gaza conflict has caused sharp divisions within the Labour party, with some quarters incensed by the leadership’s decision not to strongly criticise Israel’s siege and bombardment of Gaza.

Others say Starmer has been right to support Israel in the wake of the atrocities Hamas inflicted, linking the position to his successful campaign to stamp out antisemitism in Labour following the Jeremy Corbyn era.

Labour officials predict the divisions will deepen as the crisis facing civilians in Gaza worsens, or if Israel presses ahead with a widely anticipated ground offensive that would increase the civilian death toll.

On Monday night David Lammy, the shadow foreign secretary, and Sue Gray, Starmer’s chief of staff, were warned by councillors who want Labour to criticise Israel’s actions that the party had “a day or two” left to alter course before the internal situation became “unmanageable”, according to one person present.


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https://www.ft.com/content/7417ff05-fa1 ... c3407e166f

Labour declined to comment on a private meeting, but a party official insisted the leadership’s approach was “sensitive to all sides”.

They added that Starmer, Lammy and other shadow cabinet ministers had been “talking to communities of different faiths” and liaising with humanitarian groups seeking to help Gazans.

Starmer has faced calls to apologise for and retract remarks he made on LBC last week saying Israel had “the right” to withhold water and electricity from the Gaza strip. He added that “everything should be done within international law”.

In a debate in the House of Commons on Monday, Starmer reiterated that “Labour stands with Israel”, but stressed the need for all sides to abide by international law and to protect civilian lives.

He acknowledged that the parents grieving for their relatives in recent weeks spanned “Israeli, Palestinian, Muslim, Jew”, and made clear that Hamas were not the same as the Palestinian people.

Shortly before his remarks Amna Abdullatif, the first Arab Muslim woman elected to Manchester city council, quit Labour. She said she was “appalled by the lack of humanity being shown to Palestinians by the party”.


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https://www.ft.com/content/7417ff05-fa1 ... c3407e166f

Her exit followed two other Muslim Labour councillors in Oxfordshire who resigned in protest last week. Another Labour councillor, Jessie Hoskin, stood down in Stroud saying she was unhappy at Starmer’s comments “supporting war crimes against Palestinian people”.

One influential Muslim member of the party told the Financial Times he had spoken directly to Starmer at Labour’s party conference in Manchester last week about the need for him to balance his response to events.

“I warned him at conference that anything you say now, that’s what will be remembered when Gaza has been levelled and the death toll is going up,” the person said.

On Wednesday Labour MPs are poised to come under greater scrutiny of their position on the unfolding conflict.

Momentum, the leftwing campaign group within Labour, will publish an online database identifying Labour MPs who are yet to call for a ceasefire in the region, along with a tool helping activists lobby them by email.

It will highlight how some leftwing MPs have diverged from the party leadership, including Richard Burgon, who in parliament on Monday accused Israel of inflicting “collective punishment” on civilians in Gaza.


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https://www.ft.com/content/7417ff05-fa1 ... c3407e166f

Labour party officials were in discussions on Tuesday to prevent further councillor resignations as the party was at immediate risk of losing control of two councils where elected Muslims hold the balance of power, according to people involved in the talks. They declined to name the areas concerned.

“We have had a barrage of councillors fuming, either on the verge of resigning or fearful they could be expelled for one misplaced word,” said one person involved in the talks, adding that Starmer’s remarks in parliament on Monday had only gone so far in repairing the damage.

Some Muslim Labour members said their concerns over Labour’s position on the conflict had been exacerbated by a warning from the party over showing solidarity with Palestinians.


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https://www.ft.com/content/7417ff05-fa1 ... c3407e166f

David Evans, Labour’s general secretary, told councillors in a recent message seen by the Financial Times that they should not attend demonstrations in support of Palestine or “risk putting yourself in a position where you share a platform with, or are close to, people that would undermine the Labour party in any way”.

“We have had no problems with condemning Hamas and showing solidarity with Israelis. We have humanity. We are talking about showing a little empathy with Palestinians. You can do both at same time,” the influential Muslim party member said.

They added some in the party were now intent on organising collectively against Starmer in his central London constituency, and against Lammy, both of whom have significant numbers of Muslim residents in their voting areas.

“I have never seen anger on this level,” he said.

Reading some of the headlines reporting this I was under the impression that a shedload of councillors are resigning on mass but all in all it seems that only four have quit.

Have any Western leaders gone in hard on Israel? Seems like there’s an agreed position, with the US leading on it.

The leadership have, via briefing, been unnecessarily tactless, same as they were in Batley and Spence.

I thought Starmer was pretty clear at PMQs today.