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Re: Alex Johnson - worst prime minister ever?

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:31 pm
by Crabcakes
I can totally understand the frustration of things like this repeatedly leading to nowhere (as it did largely with Trump), and on top of that Starmer has missed a few open goals and not been as strong on some topics as I think he could have been and still not alienated anyone who wasn't already a dyed-in-the-wool tory voter.

All that said...I think what he is establishing, and what seems to finally be cutting through, is that as far as leadership goes it's an honest man vs a corrupt man. I hope now the vaccine bounce has bounced that the trajectory should be more one way. Johnson may get off again, but the much, much higher risk this time is that in doing so he makes himself look every bit the elite that he claims he isn't (but clearly is), and that it is absolutely one rule for him and another for everyone else. The fact that it's Cummings - who all the Tories were defending to the hilt last summer - doing the damage is an enormous help too. If they say he's a liar, why did they defend him? If they don't, what he says must therefore be truthful. And all this is *before* brexit realities cause them increasing woes and cries of "this isn't what I was told we would get" even from staunch supporters.

Through greed, incompetence and corruption they've painted themselves into an increasingly tight corner and they all have no loyalty and dirt on each other. If Johnson goes, who replaces him? Bully Patel who might be having her case reopened? Dodgy deal Hancock? Sunak, whose pressure led to the delayed lockdown and thousands of deaths? Backstabbing, perpetually unpopular with the public Gove? None of them are anything more than a straight swap and that won't shake off the sleaze tag because they have practically no-one else to choose from, having hounded everyone decent out of the party.

Starmer may not be Biden. But then Biden wasn't Biden until he was safely in office. Now he's doing great things, and no one apart from the perpetually disappointed Bernie bros is whining that he's just another centrist suit. I think the sort of people who moan that Starmer doesn't get as het up as Corbyn forget that Corbyn has only ever got het up, getting het up is (among other things) what put a lot of people off him, and consequently he's never been in a position to genuinely influence anything for the better. Being able to claim you're always on the right side of history re: what positions you held is nice, but making history - and having the sense of how to get into a position to do that - is orders of magnitude better.

Re: Alex Johnson - worst prime minister ever?

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:48 pm
by Samanfur
Oblomov wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:06 pm It's juvenile but I would appreciate a Dennis Skinner-type figure being ejected for straight shooting about what a corrupt, lying bastard Johnson is.
I was definitely getting that vibe from Blackford at yesterday's PMQs.

Note the long pause by Hoyle, before he calls the PM to answer - I don't think that he was sure about this one at all:


Re: Alex Johnson - worst prime minister ever?

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:10 pm
by Crabcakes
Nice :D


Re: Alex Johnson - worst prime minister ever?

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:11 pm
by Nigredo
Crabcakes wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:31 pm I can totally understand the frustration of things like this repeatedly leading to nowhere (as it did largely with Trump), and on top of that Starmer has missed a few open goals and not been as strong on some topics as I think he could have been and still not alienated anyone who wasn't already a dyed-in-the-wool tory voter.
Sorry to pick up on a minor point, mind if I ask what the open goals were? This administration presents so many juicy targets I lose track of them all :oops:

Re: Alex Johnson - worst prime minister ever?

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:31 pm
by Malcolm Armsteen
The Red Arrow wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:48 pm We do Keith, Keeves and Magic Stepdad. This isn't North Korea.
Ironically. Not to troll.

Re: Alex Johnson - worst prime minister ever?

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:29 pm
by Malcolm Armsteen
Another one who doesn't do humour.

I wonder if we have met before?

Re: Alex Johnson - worst prime minister ever?

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:33 pm
by Malcolm Armsteen
Grieve has a grievance.


Re: Alex Johnson - worst prime minister ever?

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:33 pm
by Crabcakes
20pointsAhead wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:27 pm
Crabcakes wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:10 pm Nice :D

This stuff isn't helpful. This is an issue of corruption which is being mishandled by Starmer and turned into culture-wars bullshit over whether John Lewis is a nice shop or not.
Previously he’s been framed as not having a sense of humour, not kicking the Tories when down and not seeming human. So your mileage may vary but this pisstake might reach the parts a PMQs doesn’t.

Re: Alex Johnson - worst prime minister ever?

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:46 pm
by Nigredo
Crabcakes wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:33 pm
20pointsAhead wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:27 pm
Crabcakes wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:10 pm Nice :D

This stuff isn't helpful. This is an issue of corruption which is being mishandled by Starmer and turned into culture-wars bullshit over whether John Lewis is a nice shop or not.
Previously he’s been framed as not having a sense of humour, not kicking the Tories when down and not seeming human. So your mileage may vary but this pisstake might reach the parts a PMQs doesn’t.
I agree, this will tweak a nerve at all self-obsessed manchildren like Boris/Trump in that people will be laughing at him and not with him and no amount of his bullshit and bluster will change that.

Re: Alex Johnson - worst prime minister ever?

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:49 pm
by Malcolm Armsteen
Surgical wit. I'm surprised 20Pointz didn't get it.

Re: Alex Johnson - worst prime minister ever?

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:58 pm
by Bones McCoy
A fresh roll of wallpaper is an excellent substitute for a Millwall brick.

Maybe Keef's getting tooled up for next week's PMQs.

Re: Alex Johnson - worst prime minister ever?

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:00 pm
by davidjay
20pointsAhead wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:27 pm
Crabcakes wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:10 pm Nice :D

This stuff isn't helpful. This is an issue of corruption which is being mishandled by Starmer and turned into culture-wars bullshit over whether John Lewis is a nice shop or not.
Have you by any chance got fifty quid that should by rights be mine?

Re: Alex Johnson - worst prime minister ever?

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:05 pm
by Bones McCoy

Re: Alex Johnson - worst prime minister ever?

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:49 am
by Boiler
Well, the trip to John Lewis has indeed got under the skin of the Tories:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56932548

Re: Alex Johnson - worst prime minister ever?

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:47 am
by Youngian
Boiler wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:49 am Well, the trip to John Lewis has indeed got under the skin of the Tories:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56932548
Looks like its going to be a long haul before Johnson’s rottenness cuts through. Fortunately there’s plenty of ammunition to keep it going.

Re: Alex Johnson - worst prime minister ever?

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:57 am
by Bones McCoy
Oblomov wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:06 pm It's juvenile but I would appreciate a Dennis Skinner-type figure being ejected for straight shooting about what a corrupt, lying bastard Johnson is.
I'd appreciate a John Bercow type in the speaker's chair, who'd call him on his evasion and bullshit.

Re: Alex Johnson - worst prime minister ever?

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:03 am
by Bones McCoy
Youngian wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:47 am
Boiler wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:49 am Well, the trip to John Lewis has indeed got under the skin of the Tories:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56932548
Looks like its going to be a long haul before Johnson’s rottenness cuts through. Fortunately there’s plenty of ammunition to keep it going.
Tory chairwoman Amanda Milling said the Labour leader was "playing politics" by posing with rolls of wallpaper in a branch in Manchester.
A politician, playing politics, while there are local elections on.
Well I never.
This Amanda's a perceptive one.

The real anger (and we've seen this before) is anybody getting positive coverage "except us".
They've reached the level of entitlement where they expect every media outlet to resemble Conservativehome.

Re: Alex Johnson - worst prime minister ever?

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:39 am
by Nigredo
Little wonder they refused to appear on Channel 4 news for months so they didn't have to answer difficult non-prescreened questions (this moratorium was of course lifted at the start of the vaccine roll out).

Re: Alex Johnson - worst prime minister ever?

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:11 am
by Samanfur
Bercow's pencilled in for Question Time next week.

Assuming that he keeps the slot, I might actually watch that one.

Re: Alex Johnson - worst prime minister ever?

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:40 am
by Crabcakes
This, given polls, is interesting. Looks like it's a Tory vaccine bounce and Johnson may not be key to it except for older Tory voters: