Mailwatch(ed) Forum

There’s was only one long shot to halt Labour’s meltdown to extinction; Starmer remaining steadfastly loyal to Corbyn in order to woo enough of his fan base to clinch the leadership, post Corbyn. And then hope Keir would do what’s necessary if he did win. He did and he has.

Lots of problems ahead though.

I don't see how Labour can afford to abolish tuition fees. Big chunks of the sector are near bankruptcy. He's pledged to that. That's another Clegg, potentially, however progressive the system he might come up with might be.

Tubby Isaacs wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:48 pm Another former here.

What does it mean to have more or less "politics" than someone else? Does Laura Pidcock have more than me? Who are these people who engineered this Brexit policy? Oh, Labour members. Why does Laura Smith hate them? I can see that it didn't help her or Pidcock, but given that Labour was losing to Jo Swinson before, what do they suggest?

The second part is, well. The Labour Left are increasingly like youtube cameraphone twats.

The Labour left are becoming divorced from reality.

Becoming?

Becoming divorced from reality?

I thought the irrevocable split in that particular relationship happened yonks ago.

Can McDonnell show his working here, please?

They always do this stuff with public ownership, because they know it's not as popular as it seems when the price tag is added. Make out people who oppose it can't be proper greens or progressives.

This account spends virtually no time at all on policy details, beyond attacking Starmer who's just announced that he'll fund what they want.

The childish addition of emojis... oh please...

More from the laser focussed on climate change bunch. Guess what they think the minimum wage should be? I'll take a wild guess that they thought it should be £10 until fairly recently.

I'm getting the implication from this account that stopping climate change is a complicated business. It depends on such things as supporting a certain number of MPs for leadership challenges, a £15 mimumum wage, nationalizing the Big 6 Energy companies, and not falling out with the Bakers' Union.

I'm still rooting for Ed Miliband to get the wet fish, preferably still in the trawler. For he is a major architect of our woes.

It was he who pushed the £3 Trot idiocy, despite warnings of what would happen. A stupidity for which he has never apologised or been held accountable.

It was he who abolished the electoral colleges and introduced one member one vote. In and of itself a good thing, but not when combined with a policy of letting any enemy of the party vote for leader for £3...

He wrote the 2010 election manifesto, not a great success.

He was Unite's preferred candidate in the 2010 leadership election, which he won narrowly with union support, whereas David Miliband had membership support.

It was he who decided that the previous Labour governments would never be praised or even, if possible, mentioned. In effect he rubbished all of New Labour's considerable achievements. Instead of transitioning away from some neoliberal elements he flushed the whole thing. That legacy is still with us, the albatross that hangs around our necks. 'Of course the Blair years were bad, even Labour has disowned them'. Because Iraq.

He espoused a radically more severe immigration policy than previous Labour governments. Much criticised by the membership.

Upon losing the 2015 election he resigned with indecent haste leading to a chaotic situation in which the party was effectively leaderless for months.

He has done us no favours.

Tubby Isaacs wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:50 pm Here's another of the gang.

Terrible accusation here- Kier learns from mistakes. The public hate that.

I thought leaking internal Labour Party business was bad, per this lot.

Does that include the £10 minimum wage?

Excellent point.

Corbynism is like Thatcherism and Blairism- it's whatever Corbynites, Thatcherites or Blairites say at any one point.

Ha ha.

It's not really surprising Jon and co didn't say anything. Because they didn't have a Brexit that would have worked. We know this because it's been nearly 2 years now.

The public didn't back it, Zahra. It said "in a few years".

What dissent is Starmer showing exactly?

Labour can change policy under a new leadership especially considering said manifesto delivered an 80 seat majority for the opposition.

They’ve died on some odd hills this week.

Yeah, I think the point they make about his leadership campaign is a much better one. Maybe the public will care, maybe they won't.

On the point about change, good point made here by someone well worth a follow. The Tories are good at this stuff. George Osborne and Ben Houchen have both been winners for them. One said "let's cut everything now". The other says "let's spunk money on this airport!"

To be fair both times I attended conference they delivered a video of what was delivered in power and it was always widely applauded.

Those were 2008 and 2010 mind, very different times, I ironically was dragged to the left fringe at that first conference (first time delegate 24, just left University) Tony Benn was there, mumbled a few things they applauded him like seals and then he was taken away as apparently he was too frail for any photos.

It felt a bit like communist Russia, I think I drifted to the centre left that day, however we are talking Ed Miliband/Owen Smith type centre left.

I remember the second conference as I was finally a trade union rep then and thus invitations to events seemed easier to come by as a Unison member and rep as well as a delegate.

One thing I will say about conferences then, the voices on the further left that were given time at the fringes always tried to express some comprise and were polite, can’t think what discussions have been like these last few years but if it was like the last time I went to a CLP meeting just after Owen Smith lost I doubt it’s any discussion.

Was going attend once I’ve moved area, guess we will see, tried to sort my email with my current CLP but it does feel I was blacklisted for my rather frank email to a previous secretary (Nothing nasty just very critical of Corbyn as I said this was 2017), I’ve not had an email since and tried to sort in twice with no response after an initial email. I did however get a fair bit from Sadiq Khan so someone still has me on their emails, possibly London Labour.

Shit-stirrer

MP calls for Labour leader to explain Sun article to Hillsborough families

...An opinion column by Sir Keir ran on Sunday in the paper, which has been boycotted by people in Liverpool for decades over its reporting of the 1989 disaster.

Liverpool Riverside MP Kim Johnson said it had been perceived as a betrayal of Labour voters in the area...

...During his campaign to become Labour leader in 2020, Sir Keir told party members at a hustings in Liverpool that he would not speak to the paper during his campaign...

My bold.

...Ms Johnson said Sir Keir "stood in this city during his election campaign and vowed that he would not give any interviews and would not be working with that newspaper, so it is very disappointing that he has rolled back on his pledge to do that"...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-m ... e-58795961

Is he still campaigning for the leadership, then?

I don't think he *ever* said he would *never* talk to the S*n.


What is it with these people? They shout about how Labour should be fighting the Tories, and then expend all their energy fighting the leader of their own Party.

The S*n's circulation is, thankfully, dwindling. But it is still read by a large number of people who might be persuaded that the Tories are wrecking the country and emptying their, the readers', pockets, so a vote for Labour in the next election might well be in their own best interest. Only a complete fool* would pass up such an opportunity to speak to a large number of lower-income / working class people. And only a complete fool (or someone being deliberately mendacious) wouldmisunderstand that and paint it as being somehow a betrayal.

Want to bring the S*n (and all the other MSM) to heel? Campaign widely, get elected with a majority that is "big enough" (doesn't have to be 80 seats), and implement Leveson 2.



*Exhibit A: Mr J Corbyn.

As I said I wouldn’t talk to it and as a Liverpool fan I do find it disappointing however I would hazard a guess it’s not the main concern of many families tonight on Merseyside and if it is they probably don’t have much else to worry about,