Mailwatch(ed) Forum

Sanctioning military action in the Middle East using the Royal Prerogative, what could possibly go wrong? There was no clear and present emergency to the UK that requires an instant response

Strikes against Houthi rebel sites in Yemen are "necessary and proportionate" to protect the global shipping in the Red Sea, Rishi Sunak has said.
The UK and US launched targeted strikes on military facilities overnight.
Mr Sunak said the action against the Iranian-backed group, who he accuses of threatening UK ships, was in "self-defence".
In response, Houthi officials have warned the UK and US will "pay a heavy price".
The US-led strikes are the first against the Houthi militia since it started targeting international shipping in the Red Sea last year. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67954799

Fuck it. I'm going to say it. I consider myself to be quite left wing, and the Welsh non-conformist pacifist tradition has had its influence on me, but I'm not going to knee-jerk oppose the bombing of a bunch of bronze-age lunatics that have given the green light to slavery and the dehumanisation of women in the parts of Yemen that they control. Fucking hell, they make even Hamas look almost normal.

Killer Whale wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 12:10 pm Fuck it. I'm going to say it. I consider myself to be quite left wing, and the Welsh non-conformist pacifist tradition has had its influence on me, but I'm not going to knee-jerk oppose the bombing of a bunch of bronze-age lunatics that have given the green light to slavery and the dehumanisation of women in the parts of Yemen that they control. Fucking hell, they make even Hamas look almost normal.

But it's their bronze-age lunatic backers that need removing.
The world is hostage to Islamists fighting battles over primitive religion*.




*Of course all religion is primitive, but you know what I mean. Primitive even by religious standards.

Malcolm Armsteen wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 12:16 pm But it's their bronze-age lunatic backers that need removing.

I'm seeing exactly the same people who (performatively?) backed the right of Iranian women to wear whatever the fuck they liked now backing the right of Iran-backed Yemeni terrorists to murder Filipino sailors. All in the name of - who knows? - anti-Westernism?

Killer Whale wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 12:10 pm Fuck it. I'm going to say it. I consider myself to be quite left wing, and the Welsh non-conformist pacifist tradition has had its influence on me, but I'm not going to knee-jerk oppose the bombing of a bunch of bronze-age lunatics that have given the green light to slavery and the dehumanisation of women in the parts of Yemen that they control. Fucking hell, they make even Hamas look almost normal.

That was my knee-jerk support position.
If British merchants wish to trade with countries in conflict, the FO advice is normally ‘don’t as we’re not sending in the military to bail you out.’ Blasting pirates isn’t controversial but this is a political conflict with potentially far reaching implications to Sunni-Shia conflict as well as Arab-Israeli powder kegs. This is one for parliament.

The thing is they're not trading with countries in conflict just using the Suez Canal and going through the Red Sea. What the Houthis are doing is piracy.

As tempting as it is to personalise the situation - everyone likes an unequivocally horrible villainous bastard after all - I also think it’s a mistake. This is not, strictly, a Netanyahu problem. Hell, it’s not even really a Likud (plus coalition partners) problem. At the risk of making myself a hostage to fortune, there is not, currently or for anything resembling the foreseeable future, an electable party or group of parties in Israel with the faintest interest in the fabled two state solution. Netanyahu has opposed it for the entirety of his political career and his predecessor Naftali Bennett is on the record as doing likewise. The less said about the assorted cranks on the far right of Israeli politics - religious or otherwise - the better. Meretz is still opposed to the occupation, but its pole ratings are in the toilet and that was before the Hamas attack.

I’d like to find cause for optimism, but I really can’t.

Philip Marlow wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 2:28 pm
I’d like to find cause for optimism, but I really can’t.

Worth noting that the two state solution is not wildly popular on the Palestinian side either, which makes it doubly depressing.

In fairness to them, they'd be stuck with 2 non-contiguous bits. That didn't work very well for Pakistan.

Youngian wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 12:53 pm
That was my knee-jerk support position.
If British merchants wish to trade with countries in conflict, the FO advice is normally ‘don’t as we’re not sending in the military to bail you out.’ Blasting pirates isn’t controversial but this is a political conflict with potentially far reaching implications to Sunni-Shia conflict as well as Arab-Israeli powder kegs. This is one for parliament.

Passing through the Red Sea isn't the same thing as trading with countries in conflict.

As long as Parliament meets as soon as it can, that's fine. In terms of fuelling conflict, I'm not sure anybody much cares if it's done after Parliamentary authorisation or not.

Think I’ll roll back from that one as it appears the Houtis are just pirates.
In the long term, countries will find alternative routes and trading relations closer to home. Not sure India’s plan smacks of stability.
https://www.eurasiantimes.com/how-an-in ... canal/amp/

Tubby Isaacs wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 6:33 pm In fairness to them, they'd be stuck with 2 non-contiguous bits. That didn't work very well for Pakistan.

It has been a while since I’ve looked at a detailed map of the West Bank, but I suspect the amount of land eaten up by settlements and the infrastructure to maintain them put the realistic possibility of a fully autonomous Palestinian state to bed a while ago.

I’ve always quite liked Mic Wright’s use of the professional wrestling principal of kayfabe to explain the workings of politics and media. Essentially, spectators are aware the the participants are working from an established script and that the outcome is a foregone conclusion, but pretend not to know this in order to preserve the integrity of the spectacle. Bearing that in mind, I do wonder whether Obama’s infamously frosty relationship with Netanyahu had less to do with the latter’s opposition to the peace process and more to do with his increasing refusal to play along with the idea that he might entertain it.

Even without settlements, I think the Palestinian territories were separated by some distance. I see that this was accepted in the Oslo Accords, but it's a tough sell for anybody at the best of times.

Aha! Mic Wright has discovered the Willing Suspension of Disbelief!

Tubby Isaacs wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 2:40 pm Even without settlements, I think the Palestinian territories were separated by some distance. I see that this was accepted in the Oslo Accords, but it's a tough sell for anybody at the best of times.

It's not going to happen, we're way too far down the road, but I wonder how many takers you'd get for the 1947 UN borders if you offered them today. My bet is that the Arab world, probably including the Palestinians, would bite your hand off.

It really is depressing how a lot of people have just decided to go through the looking glass.

Yeah, that's dreadful. And absolute bollocks. "Jews control the world's money" shite didn't need Israel to exist.

Sephardic Jews did have a monopoly on banking in western Europe for a few centuries (and not really by choice) but as soon as the Christians realised how much money there was to be made, they muscled in.

That said, I'd make a good guess that many high street bank branches in Israel are most likely run by Jews. Unless they're ill and a gentile is covering.

Tubby Isaacs wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 6:33 pm In fairness to them, they'd be stuck with 2 non-contiguous bits. That didn't work very well for Pakistan.

Alaska's doing OK, also France's départements et régions d'outre-mer.

I'm less sure about Kaliningrad, Cabinda province (Angola).

Fair point. Fatah and Hamas has a particularly nasty feud though.