Mailwatch(ed) Forum

Posted: **Thu Oct 26, 2023 6:39 pm**

The Weeping Angel wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 5:44 pm I'd like to remind people on here about how violent and brutal British and European history is.

Why? What's that got to do with the lack of coherent gun laws in the modern USA ?

Posted: **Thu Oct 26, 2023 6:52 pm**

The Weeping Angel wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 5:44 pm Can I also just add people are dead and people on here are expressing smug condescension about how backward and violent America is.

Statements of exasperation and disbelief that this has happened *yet again* and *yet again* we know there will be zero meaningful action is not smug condescension.

Posted: **Thu Oct 26, 2023 7:31 pm**

The Weeping Angel wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 5:44 pm Can I also just add people are dead and people on here are expressing smug condescension about how backward and violent America is. I'd like to remind people on here about how violent and brutal British and European history is.

Is there a directly comparable period when the regular citizenry were popping off on a regular and frequent basis and nailing half a dozen plus of their fellow citizens? Was "American" history, starting strongly with a bit of the oul' settler colonialist genocide somewhat less bloody? Because otherwise any such comparison is, and you'll have to excuse the technical language, fucking cuckoo.

Posted: **Thu Oct 26, 2023 7:45 pm**

The Weeping Angel wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 5:44 pm I'd like to remind people on here about how violent and brutal British and European history is.

Why? Do you have a list of our history qualifications? What makes you so sure that you're the only one present who has studied British and/or European history? And what possible relevance does European history have to 21st Century America?

The Weeping Angel wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 5:44 pm It's also down to the type of weapons being produced and on the market in the past it used to be handguns and rifles which whilst deadly could never be used by one person to massacre as many people, nowadays it's assault rifles.

Really? You think we need you to tell us that gun technology has 'improved' in the last 250 years?
How very smug and condescending of you.

The Weeping Angel wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 5:44 pm Can I also just add people are dead and people on here are expressing smug condescension about how backward and violent America is.

Gosh, you mean people have died?
In a mass shooting?
In America?
Extraordinary!
Well, they'll be introducing a Dunblane style gun ban first thing in the morning I'm sure.

Oh hang on, they won't. They'll pray instead.

Because this isn't news. This is just another day in America.
These shootings have been a regular feature of US culture all of my adult life. The first one I remember was sufficiently notable that Bob Geldof wrote a song about it. The Americans have the ability to at least reduce the mass shootings, they prefer not to.
That's up to them.
But the whole world knows about US mass shootings, they're as American as apple pie, so assuming that we need your help to understand the reports of yet another one is, again, smug and condescending.

Posted: **Thu Oct 26, 2023 8:47 pm**

Quoting the film, "Broken Arrow" (about the loss by the US military of a nuclear weapon), "I don't know what's scarier: the fact that it’s happened, or the fact they have an official term for it".

Going postal. School shooter drill. Another Columbine. Another Sandy Hook. Spree killer.

The fact these terms have become part of the lexicon says enough.

Posted: **Thu Oct 26, 2023 9:28 pm**

Appalling news.

Something a bit more positive.

Posted: **Thu Oct 26, 2023 9:48 pm**

Tubby Isaacs wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 9:28 pm Appalling news.

Something a bit more positive.

Pray, what does that mean when it's decoded into common speech?

It sounds a bit like a Gerrymandering thing, but it's difficult to tell.

Posted: **Thu Oct 26, 2023 9:50 pm**

People of Colour may vote again. At least for the time being.

Posted: **Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:19 am**

Why? Do you have a list of our history qualifications? What makes you so sure that you're the only one present who has studied British and/or European history? And what possible relevance does European history have to 21st Century America?

Of course not, just pointing out that it's not like our or European history is exactly bloodless various holy wars, pogroms, massacres, repressive governments, not to mention the holocaust and ethnic cleansings of various kinds doesn't exactly show British and European history to be any better.

Really? You think we need you to tell us that gun technology has 'improved' in the last 250 years?
How very smug and condescending of you.

All I did was point something out that often gets lost with these discussions.

Gosh, you mean people have died?
In a mass shooting?
In America?
Extraordinary!
Well, they'll be introducing a Dunblane style gun ban first thing in the morning I'm sure.

Oh hang on, they won't. They'll pray instead.

Because this isn't news. This is just another day in America.
These shootings have been a regular feature of US culture all of my adult life. The first one I remember was sufficiently notable that Bob Geldof wrote a song about it. The Americans have the ability to at least reduce the mass shootings, they prefer not to.
That's up to them.
But the whole world knows about US mass shootings, they're as American as apple pie, so assuming that we need your help to understand the reports of yet another one is, again, smug and condescending.

If it was easy as you think it is they've had already done so, except it isn't, for a start you'd have to get a bill through congress good luck trying that with the house run by the Republicans and the senate the way it is, it's all but impossible to get a Dunblane style law through at the moment. The closest I suspect you'd be able to achieve is what they managed in the 1990s which was a ban on assault weapons.

Posted: **Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:22 am**

MisterMuncher wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 7:31 pm
The Weeping Angel wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 5:44 pm Can I also just add people are dead and people on here are expressing smug condescension about how backward and violent America is. I'd like to remind people on here about how violent and brutal British and European history is.
Is there a directly comparable period when the regular citizenry were popping off on a regular and frequent basis and nailing half a dozen plus of their fellow citizens? Was "American" history, starting strongly with a bit of the oul' settler colonialist genocide somewhat less bloody? Because otherwise any such comparison is, and you'll have to excuse the technical language, fucking cuckoo.

How about the thirty years war, English Civil War, ethnic cleansings not to mention pogroms.

Posted: **Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:39 am**

Crabcakes wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 6:52 pm
The Weeping Angel wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 5:44 pm Can I also just add people are dead and people on here are expressing smug condescension about how backward and violent America is.
Statements of exasperation and disbelief that this has happened *yet again* and *yet again* we know there will be zero meaningful action is not smug condescension.

It isn't just statements and disbelief it's a condescending idea expressed that violence is somehow breed into them because of rugged individualism or some such nonsense, we're talking about a country of 300 million people, does anyone here really think they're all gun toting maniacs?

Posted: **Fri Oct 27, 2023 6:28 am**

I’m glad you think my alnalysis is condescending. I think yours is trite.

Posted: **Fri Oct 27, 2023 6:28 am**

Malcolm Armsteen wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 6:28 am I’m glad you think my analysis is condescending. I think yours is trite.

Posted: **Fri Oct 27, 2023 7:27 am**

we're talking about a country of 300 million people, does anyone here really think they're all gun toting maniacs?

Are they all gun-toting maniacs? No.

But ask yourself this: in a modern country of 300 million people, why are gun-toting maniacs still even a thing?

Answer: the culture and history that allows - if not actively encourages - the perpetuation of woefully outdated laws and ridiculous ‘freedoms’.

Posted: **Fri Oct 27, 2023 8:17 am**

Which was my point. The gun culture comes from the rugged individualism/fetishisation of violence not the other way round.

I still don't see how that statement is condescending, though.

And this, of course, the magic effects of prayer...

Posted: **Fri Oct 27, 2023 10:52 am**

The Weeping Angel wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:39 am
Crabcakes wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 6:52 pm
The Weeping Angel wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 5:44 pm Can I also just add people are dead and people on here are expressing smug condescension about how backward and violent America is.
Statements of exasperation and disbelief that this has happened *yet again* and *yet again* we know there will be zero meaningful action is not smug condescension.
It isn't just statements and disbelief it's a condescending idea expressed that violence is somehow breed into them because of rugged individualism or some such nonsense, we're talking about a country of 300 million people, does anyone here really think they're all gun toting maniacs?

Of course not, but few other nations express their exceptionalism by legally empowering gun toting maniacs.

Posted: **Fri Oct 27, 2023 3:41 pm**

The Weeping Angel wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:22 am
MisterMuncher wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 7:31 pm
The Weeping Angel wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 5:44 pm Can I also just add people are dead and people on here are expressing smug condescension about how backward and violent America is. I'd like to remind people on here about how violent and brutal British and European history is.
Is there a directly comparable period when the regular citizenry were popping off on a regular and frequent basis and nailing half a dozen plus of their fellow citizens? Was "American" history, starting strongly with a bit of the oul' settler colonialist genocide somewhat less bloody? Because otherwise any such comparison is, and you'll have to excuse the technical language, fucking cuckoo.
How about the thirty years war, English Civil War, ethnic cleansings not to mention pogroms.

All of which America had equivalents to in spades. And none of which is comparable in a "one dude decides everyone needs to die tomorrow"

Posted: **Fri Oct 27, 2023 4:05 pm**

All countries, including America, have fought wars.
Most countries, including America, have had civil wars.
Many countries, including America, have attempted ethnic cleansing.
None of which has anything to do with mentally ill people being entitled to buy and own military grade firearms for private use.
What is unique about America is the prioritising of the rights of gun owners over the right to life of their citizens.
If the American public had the collective will, they could change this by making it clear that they will refuse to vote for any politician who doesn't support gun control. But, like turkeys voting for Thanksgiving, they don't.

Posted: **Tue Oct 31, 2023 8:49 pm**

Posted: **Mon Nov 06, 2023 7:27 am**

Frosty recently at GOP gathering for Governor Christie

Trump responds as classless as ever

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